Orcollo might try to beat the 626 record

[lfigueroa]

It would surprise me a lot. Though he runs a lot of balls at DCC, 260 this year on tough tables, Dennis has very limited experience playing straight pool. He definitely has the stamina and the ability to concentrate for the length of a very long run, but I just don't see it happening.

The list of pros who play straight pool year round is a short one indeed and I just can't see anyone who doesn't play loads of straight pool exceeding John's run. With the straight pool era 35 years in the rear view mirror and so little prize money available in straight pool today, why should we expect anyone to make such a commitment?

Several have noted that Willie's record lasted over 60 years, and I think John's record may well last as long, maybe even forever unless someone put up a million dollars or there is another straight pool era.

Stu, let me ask you: you put six top like players, like say: Hohmann, Ortmann, Orcullo, Filler, Melling, and Pagulayan in a room with a table perfectly set up for big 14.1 runs with perfect conditions, ie: ac, polished balls, slick but not too slick cloth, big pockets, and minimum distractions are you honestly going to bet against them if they have months to break the record?!

How many months did JS take? Like five months?

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Come on now. The record stands for 60 years and suddenly Dennis is going to roll over JS's achievement. I think not. I got a lot of respect for DO's game but this is something different. Runs end for 100 different reasons that don't include missing the shot. Even a superior ball maker like Dennis will get stopped by one of these.

1. You got to execute 45 break shots and not:
-scratch, get hooked, have a ball frozen to you, no shot. kicked somewhere crazy,stuck to the pack, all the above and more.
2. Not end up straight on a breakout ball
3. Get some funny skid or kick while shooting 600+ shots
4. Miscue and other acts of god
5. etc

Now add the hundreds of hours of experience in playing the game and the percentages and ways to break open the stack that someone like John has (and Dennis doesn't). I wouldn't think a rotation player or any Filipino (based on what they have grown up on) would be my first pick. Possibly a Euro like Filler or Kaci. Even a super talented ball maker like Jayson Shaw I suspect doesn't have the mental makeup to keep his concentration up for that long (no disrespect intended).

Sprinters can be Long Distance runners but generally it doesn't translate like that in real life.

Kids this one is going to stand for a long time unless some sugar daddy puts a huge bounty on it being surpassed and even then it might not happen. Dennis O suddenly trying for a week is not going to give Mr 600 bed sweats.

Nick, what you say has much merit.

But Orcullo has already demonstrated that he can run a lot of balls with minimum experience playing 14.1. He gets a week getting down some of the finer points and who knows. Also, consider that there are several players like Hohmann, Ortmann, and Feijen who are accomplished straight pool mechanics. *Any* of those guys gets incentivized and we're off to the races if they are provided ideal conditions and enough time.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

crane , balsis ,lassiter , caras , mizerak , sigel , rempe , hopkins , varner , west ,nagy , ortmann , engert and hohmann .
mosconis record survived them all .

Well, the guys like Crane, Balsis, Lassiter, Caras, Mizerak, Sigel, Rempe, Hopkins, Varner, and Nagy weren't criss-crossing the country doing exhibitions 300 days of the year like Mosconi.

And that's pretty much the only opportunity there was to do something like a high run with witnesses and all we know is that even Mosconi only went for it once. Also consider that there really wasn't any no muss no fuss no cost way of recording run attempts back in the day. You couldn't really lock up a bunch of potential witnesses to sign affidavits later on for days, weeks, or months. And film was far too expensive an option.

As to Ortmann, Engert, and Hohmann (and a few others) it remains to be seen if they don't take this on now that JS has made it "a thing" and set up an easy table and goferit.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I agree. The fact that all of a sudden there's this interest in going after JS's record now that money has been offered is quite suspect. JS did it purely for the challenge. Yes, I know, there was a bounty for breaking the 526 at one time, but it was short-lived.

This 526 *needed* to be broken. With all of the Mosconi hanger-ons, it screamed "break me!"

-Sean

Hi, Sean good to see you posting.

But what about all the JS "hangers-on" ready to declare him the next Dalai Lama?

Lou Figueroa

 

[AtLarge]

So what is Denis's and John's high runs on Diamond tables, pretty comparable or not?

In the DCC challenge events, the top runs for both of them came this year -- 260 for Orcollo and 216 for Schmidt. (Filler at 285, Melling at 244, and Immonen at 201 completed the top 5 this year.)

That 260 may well be Orcollo's high on a Diamond. But Schmidt has said his overall high on a Diamond is 294.

 

[Black-Balled]

And to me, buffalo's seems like the perfect place to set up 4 tables and give some players a month to have at it. Sponsors needed...put the payout toward the 6 figure zone.

I think a lot of the top rotation players are going to realize there is a lot of specialized knowledge needed that doesn't transfer from other games.

Big difference between 300 and 600 balls...and 600 still checks up short.

Mika is another player that, givin the right incentive, would eventually take it down.

I think once a BIG $ number is offered up...it will happen.


No way it happens quick. Someone will have to devote months....day in,day out...



And to think, no more 14.1 at Derby.

What a shame.

 

[one stroke]

Dennis is a phenomenal player. I think he is greatly underestimating just how phenomenal 626 is. I might end up looking dumb, but I don't think he'll break 400

I give him a pretty good shot at 400 given the same table with buckets and cleaning of balls during the run .conditions I don't think he's ever played with for a long period of time
Although not a 14-1 specialist I have to believe all the one pocket he's played in the last few yrs helps his understanding of busting balls out of the rack and his ability to play at a high level for hours on end has to help his chances also ,he can easily stay focused for the time needed to complete the feat


1

 

[sjm]

Stu, let me ask you: you put six top like players, like say: Hohmann, Ortmann, Orcullo, Filler, Melling, and Pagulayan in a room with a table perfectly set up for big 14.1 runs with perfect conditions, ie: ac, polished balls, slick but not too slick cloth, big pockets, and minimum distractions are you honestly going to bet against them if they have months to break the record?!

How many months did JS take? Like five months?

Lou Figueroa

On a loose table, I’d bet on them as long as they made the attempts, but I just can’t imagine the scenario in which they would make the attempts for months unless a huge amount of money was in play.

It’s easy to overlook just how important the commitment issue is here, and I just can’t see anyone matching the commitment John had to shot thousand and thousands of hours of straight pool. I just don’t think they’d give it a go.

Finally, I like Feijen over half of your six.

 

[jrctherake]

Hi, Sean good to see you posting.

But what about all the JS "hangers-on" ready to declare him the next Dalai Lama?

Lou Figueroa

I, in no way, think John is the next Dalai Lama.

He knows there are a few (very few) people that could/can take his record down but, it wouldn't be as easy as some think and you know that. It will take a top tier pro some time to beat it.

Like myself, your an "ok" 14.1 player but, neither one of us have anything to bragg about. Like you, I have a modest high run of 156 (match play) and a few runs a little over 100 (match play) and a gazillion runs between 50 and 75 in practice and match play.

So, you and I know what it takes to get where John went. It takes a lot of what you and I DONT HAVE. We've never had it, never will, not even close.

What I do know as fact:

John has the highest exhibition run in history that can be proven! Regardless of what you, myself or ANYONE thinks about it or John, well, that's a fact.

 

[deanoc]

I think Dennis will make 1000 in a row within a week

possibly live threads and commentary would add to the suspense

 

[one stroke]

I think Dennis will make 1000 in a row within a week

possibly live threads and commentary would add to the suspense

I don't know about that but it's even odds to happen before you post a pic of a cue

1

 

[spktur]

It's funny to me that for the last 60 years that 526 was absolutely amazing and an almost unbreakable record, but now that someone (John Schmidt) has broken it's just a minor thing and anyone can do it. All records are for breaking but if it was easy it would have been broken a long time ago

 

[Cardigan Kid]

Well, the guys like Crane, Balsis, Lassiter, Caras, Mizerak, Sigel, Rempe, Hopkins, Varner, and Nagy weren't criss-crossing the country doing exhibitions 300 days of the year like Mosconi.

And that's pretty much the only opportunity there was to do something like a high run with witnesses and all we know is that even Mosconi only went for it once. Also consider that there really wasn't any no muss no fuss no cost way of recording run attempts back in the day. You couldn't really lock up a bunch of potential witnesses to sign affidavits later on for days, weeks, or months. And film was far too expensive an option.

As to Ortmann, Engert, and Hohmann (and a few others) it remains to be seen if they don't take this on now that JS has made it "a thing" and set up an easy table and goferit.

Lou Figueroa

My POV has been based on Thorsten's congratulatory post he made in face book. He stated that the number itself was ridiculous. Tony Robles posted that he thought it was bigger than any world championship or us open (https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156670271443600&id=513738599&__tn__=*s-R).

I just don't believe these great 14.1 players would be publicly this in awe just to be polite...I'm reading into their comments that they truly believe this number is astonishing and out of reach by even themselves.

I would love to hear Niels F's comments on the number. I watched a video of him on his home table go for a max and he missed in practice on 208....
https://youtu.be/dt-isNeP0Gc

You could see the shock and frustration and hanging the head as he simply jawed #209.

I read into Thorsten's comments that he believes the number is so ridiculous because of all the failures you must endure and forge through to get there. The achievement wasn't just the number--it was the victory over the human condition that these players are applauding.

 

[jrctherake]

On a loose table, I’d bet on them as long as they made the attempts, but I just can’t imagine the scenario in which they would make the attempts for months unless a huge amount of money was in play.

It’s easy to overlook just how important the commitment issue is here, and I just can’t see anyone matching the commitment John had to shot thousand and thousands of hours of straight pool. I just don’t think they’d give it a go.

Finally, I like Feijen over half of your six.

The commitment is the key factor that seems to be overlooked by most. Even, supposedly experienced 14.1 players, which makes exactly ZERO sense, because an experienced 14.1 play "should know that" and 5he commitment should be the first thing they acknowledge....not all the other lesser important variables.

I think it's a personal issue with some. With others, I think what you say is the culprit.

 

[jrctherake]

My POV has been based on Thorsten's congratulatory post he made in face book. He stated that the number itself was ridiculous. Tony Robles posted that he thought it was bigger than any world championship or us open (https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156670271443600&id=513738599&__tn__=*s-R).

I just don't believe these great 14.1 players would be publicly this in awe just to be polite...I'm reading into their comments that they truly believe this number is astonishing and out of reach by even themselves.

I would love to hear Niels F's comments on the number. I watched a video of him on his home table go for a max and he missed in practice on 208....
https://youtu.be/dt-isNeP0Gc

You could see the shock and frustration and hanging the head as he simply jawed #209.

I read into Thorsten's comments that he believes the number is so ridiculous because of all the failures you must endure and forge through to get there. The achievement wasn't just the number--it was the victory over the human condition that these players are applauding.

Exactly!

If a true top player like Thorsten acknowledges John's run in aw.... how can some amateur say boo about it?

If you read between the lines of some of the posts on hear, you'll see that its personal, not 14.1.

 

[jrctherake]

I think Dennis will make 1000 in a row within a week

possibly live threads and commentary would add to the suspense

Step away from the pipe!

 

[one stroke]

The commitment is the key factor that seems to be overlooked by most. Even, supposedly experienced 14.1 players, which makes exactly ZERO sense, because an experienced 14.1 play "should know that" and 5he commitment should be the first thing they acknowledge....not all the other lesser important variables.

I think it's a personal issue with some. With others, I think what you say is the culprit.

You simply won't get a top guy going on record for anything more than a congrats, I do know as a fact that thier are a few that say that the conditions and the cleaning of balls were a big factor in the run , it's not personal just a statement of facts

1

 

[WildWing]

Step away from the pipe!

Totally agree. Or at least do it with legal tobacco, such as a strong burley.

John's record is the best authenticated. There are always going to be those who want to make it disappear, or somehow make it seem irrelevant. Those souls have serious issues.

All the best,
WW

 

[Bob Jewett]

Dennis is a phenomenal player. I think he is greatly underestimating just how phenomenal 626 is. I might end up looking dumb, but I don't think he'll break 400

I think that if Dennis tries on an easy table (5-inch pockets) he will run 400 within 200 starts.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... You could see the shock and frustration and hanging the head as he simply jawed #209. ...

John missed a whole bunch of times between 210 and 450. If he had let it really bother him, I think he would have stopped. I also think that when he started to get into the 400s multiple times, he realized that it was really only a matter of time and he had set out enough time.