The story behind the Jackot cues

[Cornerman]

One thing I think you fail to take into account is the "build quality", or lack thereof, of the Jackpot cues.

Schmelke makes a good cue - at their particular low price point.

But no one in their right mind would put the build quality of a Schmelke cue as being on a par with, let's say, Johnny Sanchez of Libra Cues.

We can all agree that how a cue plays can be very subjective, but a big part of the deception was the Jackpot cues were sold as not only well-designed, but as extremely well-made custom cues.

As we know, this is not the case.

Funny you should use the 1980's McDermott cues as a comparison. Do you think the Jackpot cues will hold together just as well 30 years from now? I sure don't.

And I won't even mention the "value" of a Jackpot cue should someone attempt to resell one.

I think these points are a departure from what the majority are complaining about: that they thought Jack was making them, but in fact other people were contracted to make them.

I have an 80's McDermott shaft that fell apart. I have also one from the 80's that is a prized treasure. I don't know who got their Jackpot cue for resale value.

Until I heard of Jack Potter on AZ and Libra Cues, I had no idea what a Libra Cue was. I still don't. It's not important to me. I can't speak to why anyone else got one of these cues.

 

[Cornerman]

This wouldn’t even be a discussion if the manufacturer being mentioned, had the capacity to build a $500 cue. They don’t. Sorry. If they went with Pechauer, or Jacoby, I’m guaranteeing there would be very little grief. However, when you charge double the retail of a company’s highest end offering, you’re going to be in for a rough ride. Doesn’t matter if you have Schmelke the dimensions to a SW. It would still be a Schmelke, and it would be a cold day in hell before I’d pay anything north of $150 for any offering from them.

Lots of good stuff here, Shawn. But people were definitely griping long before they found out it was Schmelke. Did the fact that it's Schmelke make things worse? Or maybe it made a confirmation of the worst fears?

 

[logical]

This wouldn’t even be a discussion if the manufacturer being mentioned, had the capacity to build a $500 cue. They don’t. Sorry. If they went with Pechauer, or Jacoby, I’m guaranteeing there would be very little grief. However, when you charge double the retail of a company’s highest end offering, you’re going to be in for a rough ride. Doesn’t matter if you have Schmelke the dimensions to a SW. It would still be a Schmelke, and it would be a cold day in hell before I’d pay anything north of $150 for any offering from them.

I still think it's about honest disclosure prior to the sale and you know...not flat out lying about who was making the cues. I don't think it's out of the question that an experienced and modern low end cue factory could make a small run of cues worth a premium price. For all I know they are as good as many more expensive cues....not the point here.

It's one thing to sell mystery cues because the buyer knows he's rolling the dice. Its another thing entirely to represent them as something they clearly are not.

Sent from the future.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

I still think it's about honest disclosure prior to the sale and you know...not flat out lying about who was making the cues. I don't think it's out of the question that an experienced and modern low end cue factory could make a small run of cues worth a premium price. For all I know they are as good as many more expensive cues....not the point here.

It's one thing to sell mystery cues because the buyer knows he's rolling the dice. Its another thing entirely to represent them as something they clearly are not.

Sent from the future.

Listen, I get it. Really. The deception bothers me to no end. But, let’s get to the truth of the matter - let’s say these things ended up being made by a former SW employee that was going on his own, and made some super high quality plain janes as his entry into the market....that would end up being a neat backstory, and if the cues were of the utmost quality, then there would be some ruffled feathers, perhaps, but not many.

When you portray a $150 Schmackpot as a $500 custom cue, that’s a stretch. And, quite frankly, beyond the scope of Schmelke as a manufacturer. If they could build $500 cues, they would have by now.

 

[logical]

Listen, I get it. Really. The deception bothers me to no end. But, let’s get to the truth of the matter - let’s say these things ended up being made by a former SW employee that was going on his own, and made some super high quality plain janes as his entry into the market....that would end up being a neat backstory, and if the cues were of the utmost quality, then there would be some ruffled feathers, perhaps, but not many.



When you portray a $150 Schmackpot as a $500 custom cue, that’s a stretch. And, quite frankly, beyond the scope of Schmelke as a manufacturer. If they could build $500 cues, they would have by now.

I don't think we disagree...I may not even have meant to quote you. I'm working from home and start drinking by 10:00 am.

Sent from the future.

 

[TATE]

Lots of good stuff here, Shawn. But people were definitely griping long before they found out it was Schmelke. Did the fact that it's Schmelke make things worse? Or maybe it made a confirmation of the worst fears?

It was when Dean acknowledged that Jack didn't build the cues depite his previous claims.

It was further inflamed and frustrated by the fact Dean wouldn't reveal the real cue maker. He had insinuated that the custom cue maker didn't want his name revealed for confidentiality purposes. I think somebody found out it was Schmelke and outed Dean anyway. Then the house burnt down, he had to reveal it to his customers.

I know he's your friend Fred, but Dean really did this to himself. He handled it so poorly. People can be very forgiving when there is honesty and an apology, but they are relentless when there is denial and dishonesty.

His project wasn't the problem. His character was.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Lots of good stuff here, Shawn. But people were definitely griping long before they found out it was Schmelke. Did the fact that it's Schmelke make things worse? Or maybe it made a confirmation of the worst fears?

I think it’s the second. Some of us have received “steals” in the past, like when Steve Klein started out, and I got two Schmelke blank Klein’s for $175 each when he started. He turned out to be one of the best up and comers in the early 2000s. Guys who bought EDCs for the opening prices of $1400 are smiling like bandits. $500 for something that the manufacturer can’t even sell their own cues for that much? That’s being conned. Plain and simple.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

It was when Dean acknowledged that Jack didn't build the cues depite his previous claims.

It was further inflamed and frustrated by the fact Dean wouldn't reveal the real cue maker. He had insinuated that the custom cue maker didn't want his name revealed for confidentiality purposes. I think somebody found out it was Schmelke and outed Dean anyway. Then the house burnt down, he had to reveal it to his customers.

I know he's your friend Fred, but Dean really did this to himself. He handled it so poorly. People can be very forgiving when there is honesty and an apology, but they are relentless when there is denial and dishonesty.

His project wasn't the problem. His character was.

Yep. Deans first few posts mentioned that Jack had made 12 cues, and he was trying to talk him into making 12 more. That, to me, directly implies Jack made the cues. Otherwise, just say that Jack had 12 cues commissioned.

 

[TATE]

What happened to the Jack Potter username here on AZ? I can't find his posts, even the one he made to Will Prout yesterday.

 

[maha]

all it takes is for schmelke to come out and say this run of cues are really 500 dollar cues and are something special they made that is above and beyond their top of the line cues.
then all is fair. or we have two liars.

 

[deadnutz]

I was gonna post, I mean it is a public forum.... and I would’ve had you all laughing hysterically (hell I was) but decided I’ll just eat my popcorn and watch the show.

Only thing I will say is no matter what it is or how bad I want it, ol’ deano will never see a penny of mine. Never, and I will make sure nobody I know sends a dollar his way either. Carry on....

 

[jimmyg]

What happened to the Jack Potter username here on AZ? I can't find his posts, even the one he made to Will Prout yesterday.

Jackpot is his username.

 

[TATE]

Jackpot is his username.

OK thanks Jimmy.

 

[johnnysd]

I totally get it. I guess I must be the only one.

Just a question:

Say someone advertised a deal for Balabushka copies and STRONGLY hinted that they were made by Pete T. and cost $2500 on a package deal. You are happy with the cue but later find out that the cues were made by Adams. Would you think you had been somewhat swindled?

 

[Ken_4fun]

I guess I am still at a loss.

I don't understand the issue. I post here often and for years. Dean has been the standing joke for years about posting pictures (he never posts pictures).

So as I understand it, Dean sold cues, didn't post who the maker was and offered to refund money if you weren't happy.

The nits on here paid $500 for cue that they could have bought from Schmelke for $200. So now they are pissed off.

I am not a buyer or seller from Dean but I don't see what he did that was such a outrage.

For $500 WTH did you expect?

Years ago, Dean sold copies of Balabushka cues made by Schon. They looked like crap to me, with rounded inlayed points but the nitwits here thought the got the greatest cue in the world. Hell if you are happy, I am tickled $hitless, but instead of getting a Schon like the early ones were with the spliced points you got a Merry Widow cue with inlays.

For the nits that are complaining, you do understand if you buy retail there is usually around 100% markup in the businesses I am around.

He offered a refund, at a reasonable amount of time, which is the same I offer.

It just speaks to me if you are buying a cue with no pictures, no named maker, etc. you are stupid enough to deserve whatever you get. Hell you got the right to return if not happy.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Ken

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Just a question:

Say someone advertised a deal for Balabushka copies and STRONGLY hinted that they were made by Pete T. and cost $2500 on a package deal. You are happy with the cue but later find out that the cues were made by Adams. Would you think you had been somewhat swindled?

That’s a bad comparison. Adam cues make a line called Musashi, that sell for well over $2k. They have the capability to build a cue valued at $2500. Take your original statement, but then substitute Players instead of Adam. Then you’re closer. There are zero cues by Schmelke that sell for over $400.

 

[Cornerman]

Just a question:

Say someone advertised a deal for Balabushka copies and STRONGLY hinted that they were made by Pete T. and cost $2500 on a package deal. You are happy with the cue but later find out that the cues were made by Adams. Would you think you had been somewhat swindled?

Strange hypothetical question based on a false rumor that still get perpetuated.

That’s not what happened here, and no Tascarella cue was built by The Adam Cue company despite the rumors. Both Tascarellas were official repair guys for Adam USA. There’s no secret there.

But if a seller strongly suggested it was built by Pete, I would ask Pete about the cue first.

 

[ideologist]

I guess I am still at a loss.

I don't understand the issue. I post here often and for years. Dean has been the standing joke for years about posting pictures (he never posts pictures).

So as I understand it, Dean sold cues, didn't post who the maker was and offered to refund money if you weren't happy.

The nits on here paid $500 for cue that they could have bought from Schmelke for $200. So now they are pissed off.

I am not a buyer or seller from Dean but I don't see what he did that was such a outrage.

For $500 WTH did you expect?

Years ago, Dean sold copies of Balabushka cues made by Schon. They looked like crap to me, with rounded inlayed points but the nitwits here thought the got the greatest cue in the world. Hell if you are happy, I am tickled $hitless, but instead of getting a Schon like the early ones were with the spliced points you got a Merry Widow cue with inlays.

For the nits that are complaining, you do understand if you buy retail there is usually around 100% markup in the businesses I am around.

He offered a refund, at a reasonable amount of time, which is the same I offer.

It just speaks to me if you are buying a cue with no pictures, no named maker, etc. you are stupid enough to deserve whatever you get. Hell you got the right to return if not happy.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Ken

Hold on. Dean posted that Jack Potter was the maker, several times. Both that he had finished cues that Jack made, and shafts that Jack tapered.

Complete lies and he's still shucking and jiving his way around those lies.

 

[Cron]

Schmelke fan here. I'm not part of any of this, but is there any other pictures of this $500 Schmelke, besides the 2 posted? To be honest, as a Schmelke fan, the 2 pictures posted so far don't boast well for even a $270 Schmelke. I'm curious as to how intricate the designs were made by Schmelke.

This $270 Schmelke isn't all that, but disregarding opinion, it's still more intricate than the 2 pictures I've seen in this thread:
https://www.schmelkecue.com/schmelke-h035-cocobola-inlay-cue.html

 

[trinacria]

Schmelke fan here. I'm not part of any of this, but is there any other pictures of this $500 Schmelke, besides the 2 posted? To be honest, as a Schmelke fan, the 2 pictures posted so far don't boast well for even a $270 Schmelke. I'm curious as to how intricate the designs were made by Schmelke.

This $270 Schmelke isn't all that, but disregarding o
pinion, it's still more intricate than the 2 pictures I've seen in this thread:
https://www.schmelkecue.com/schmelke-h035-cocobola-inlay-cue.html

$350 for a very nice looking cue and a laminated LD shaft.
https://www.billiardwarehouse.com/cues/schmelke/schmelke_bocote-merrywidow-pto-ultra-shaft.htm

$115 for what the jackpot cue is. and even cheaper if bought in bulk.
https://www.billiardwarehouse.com/cues/schmelke/schmelke_m2r.htm


he thought he could take everyone for an idiot, and he almost got away with it, but some people have a sixth sense when it comes to smelling rotten meat, and someone here got him.