$10,000 One Pocket Challenge: Lou Figueroa vs John Barton

[JB Cases]

Really, you REALLY don't understand why JB got banned so many times? Almost every one of those threads before the match spiralled out of control with constant abuse, trolling and threats of physical violence. JB was not an innocent bystander or victim in all of this. And that was only a small selection of such behaviour. Look, I like him, he's an interesting character and all, but why he got banned so many times is no mystery to anyone. For what it's worth, he always got to come back, which I think is nice. As long as a person has interesting stuff to contribute, I feel that permabans should be extremely rare. Many of those banned members of old are duplicate accounts of serial trollers, btw, and I have no issue with those bans what so ever.

I'd say many people permanently banned on here has had the hammer come down on them for much lesser offenses and were also great and knowledgable characters. I don't have any objections that JB was allowed back, I think it was good, but it's sad that some others never got that chance. We can agree on that.

And if we analyze those times I got banned we can see the CRAZY antagonism and FLAT OUT LIES told about me that spurred me to finally break a rule by calling someone a name. I am willing to bet everything I own that this is the case in 99% of the situations.

 

[JB Cases]

Would it bother you if I tell the story about your phone call from China? I think that did it.

No but tell the TRUE story and not Mike's made up BS.

 

[JB Cases]

Taken in the context of JBs saying he's not afraid of my game; I'm not much of a 1pocket player, and his denial of cheating when it was clear to everyone at the venue that he was getting coached, I'm OK with it.

Lou Figueroa

You're clueless. And you're truly vile. You backstabbed me TWICE. You extended your hand at Derby and I accepted and we were good UNTIL I comitted the TERRIBLE sin of disagreeing with you about Hal Houle and Stan Shuffett and aiming systems. And that disagreement was MILD and cordial in keeping with our agreement. But you went off the rails knocking me - "pay my people in fishheads" type of remarks.

Then when the match was over I asked if you if we could bury the animosity and you said ok and ONE WEEK LATER you were lying about me AGAIN.

So yeah, you're a sore winner but not because of me. You're a sore winner because you're a terrible person. As so many knew about you long before I ever met you.

 

[JB Cases]

I forgot about Mlalum. Was he banned for life over that post?
Seams harsh and one sided to me. Change my mind??

He was told that in order to come back he had to apologize and he refused to do that. He was completely in the wrong.

 

[JB Cases]

Here's what I said shortly after the match about that shot:

#####
We progress to the point in the last game of the night where two balls are on the spot and I hide the third ball on the table ball on the other side of the two balls. John looks at the shot and then does an odd thing. John goes to his corner and studies the shot from there. That made no sense to me, since any player would be looking at it from behind the CB, or directly facing it. But John is off in his corner, spends a few moments there and then, to my surprise, John shoots an intentional foul laying the CB up behind two balls on the spot. The owed ball is spotted and I am now sandwiched between two balls and I think to myself, “No way John knows that shot.” Now in this situation, taking himself off the hill, it’s actually the wrong shot. But nonetheless, now I’m wondering what’s going on.
#####

From there, I tuned in to what was going on and witnessed you getting coached by the guy hiding behind the column with his hand to his mouth.

Lou Figueroa

Complete BS. But the funniest part of this "story" is that you contend that I was conversing with a top level player and that player told me to play a shot that was in your words the wrong shot and which was later ridiculed by top level players and pros. Does that make sense to anyone else?

Furthermore, as I have stated plenty of times, Dennis mumbles to the point where he is very hard to understand IF you are facing him and paying very close attention. So it's crazy to think that I was standing there having a conversation with him that resulted in me playing a shot he would have NEVER played.

The sad part is that even though I was losing and even though I lost that game I still appreciate your compliment on that shot. I didn't see it as the wrong shot at the time and thought I did something good and that you had responded with a good return shot.

I know who I am and what I stand for. You will not get to rewrite history on this as long as I am alive to tell the actual story. You can try to use your professional liar experience as a paid government shill but in no way will that crap work here as long as I am around. And if you die before I do then the truthful story is what will be told whenever this topic comes up.

 

[JB Cases]

Yeah I never understood so many bannings. JB must have the record next to Fast Larry. Probably banned 100 times. Other members that were excellent contributors like Superstar, got banned for life. Doesn't make any sense. I think I'd rather have the site a free for all. Its kind of sad when someone bumps an old thread, and 1/4 of the posts show banned next to the member names.

Actually I was banned less than 10 times and each time I acknowledged that I broke the rules with ONE exception where I was unfairly banned and I appealed and the ban was rescinded.

And for the record, I put up a lot of good content and what I didn't put up with was the completely unfair defamatory attacks. You contributed to fanning the flames from time to time as well.

 

[JB Cases]

And, frankly, it's because of people like Mike Lalumiere and Lou Figueroa that so many good contributors and industry people don't want to be here. The conversations I had had about AZB with industry people and how they feel that this is a cesspool is depressing. I have a group on Facebook with 50,000+ members and very little of what goes on here. Because we have rules in place that were thoughtfully created and are rigorously enforced. I have however gained a ton of admiration for what the moderators on any forum have to put up and for being part of those headaches here I am truly sorry. That said the moderation is not always fair and that is hard to accept if you're on the unfair end of it.

I would love to be here more and contributing cool stuff. But it's because of people like Lou that this place is unwelcoming. Which is sad because MOST of the people here are pretty good people from what I can see. A few are unashamed LIARS and TROLLS and that ruins it for a lot of folks who could be awesome to have around.

 

[TATE]

No but tell the TRUE story and not Mike's made up BS.

I was telling what Mike's story was. He said she was frightened, not that you necessarily did anything to warrant it except make the call.

Calm down, I thought it was a funny story and an amusing back story. I had no knowledge if it were true just that you acknowledged you had made the call and spoke to his mom.

When I said correct me if I'm wrong, I meant politely.

 

[TATE]

I have a group on Facebook with 50,000+ members and very little of what goes on here.

What is your facebook group?

 

[lfigueroa]

Complete BS. But the funniest part of this "story" is that you contend that I was conversing with a top level player and that player told me to play a shot that was in your words the wrong shot and which was later ridiculed by top level players and pros. Does that make sense to anyone else?

Furthermore, as I have stated plenty of times, Dennis mumbles to the point where he is very hard to understand IF you are facing him and paying very close attention. So it's crazy to think that I was standing there having a conversation with him that resulted in me playing a shot he would have NEVER played.

The sad part is that even though I was losing and even though I lost that game I still appreciate your compliment on that shot. I didn't see it as the wrong shot at the time and thought I did something good and that you had responded with a good return shot.

I know who I am and what I stand for. You will not get to rewrite history on this as long as I am alive to tell the actual story. You can try to use your professional liar experience as a paid government shill but in no way will that crap work here as long as I am around. And if you die before I do then the truthful story is what will be told whenever this topic comes up.

Immediately after the end of the last game of the first day, I went up to Ed, the owner of the room we played at, Sandcastle in NJ (and who is one of the most stand up guys in pool), to complain about your cheating — our conversation went like this:

Lou: “I got a complaint.”
Ed: “What is it?”
Lou: “John was getting coached by the black guy in his corner.”
Ed: “Oh yeah. I could see it from the booth. I was waiting for you to say something.”

Lou Figueroa

 

[JoeyInCali]

Hell, even a pandemic can't stop this saga.

 

[justadub]

Hell, even a pandemic can't stop this saga.

This will continue until the End Of Days, certainly...

 

[JC]

JB has been a vocal and wordy advocate of Center to Edge aiming, going back to RSB.

I personally feel that it is a deeply flawed system (I may have said words to that effect, in stronger language, more than a few times) and I myself just aim just by feel. So basically we'd been sniping over this aiming thing for over 20 years and this match was the "put up or shut up, show me your aiming system" throw down.

Lou Figueroa

With a stroke like that why would you be worried about an aiming system?

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

What is your facebook group?

Open Billiards Market

 

[iusedtoberich]

Really, you REALLY don't understand why JB got banned so many times? Almost every one of those threads before the match spiralled out of control with constant abuse, trolling and threats of physical violence. JB was not an innocent bystander or victim in all of this. And that was only a small selection of such behaviour. Look, I like him, he's an interesting character and all, but why he got banned so many times is no mystery to anyone. For what it's worth, he always got to come back, which I think is nice. As long as a person has interesting stuff to contribute, I feel that permabans should be extremely rare. Many of those banned members of old are duplicate accounts of serial trollers, btw, and I have no issue with those bans what so ever.

I'd say many people permanently banned on here has had the hammer come down on them for much lesser offenses and were also great and knowledgable characters. I don't have any objections that JB was allowed back, I think it was good, but it's sad that some others never got that chance. We can agree on that.

I understand completely. Its because nearly every drama, JB was right in the middle of it. My point was how come he got banned XX times, and is still here, while others got banned once and gone forever. My other point, was maybe we would be better off if there were no bans. I disagree with JB on the aiming system stuff, but I know he is a good guy, and adds value to the pool world and the discussion forum.

 

[8cree]

Having read this entire thread. I will now be purchasing a custom JB Case.

Carry on.

 

[iusedtoberich]

...snip...You contributed to fanning the flames from time to time as well.

This is true. I do apologize in hindsight. I think as I've gotten older I've mellowed out quite a bit. I know you have as well.

What is the most powerful thing about all the various aiming systems, IMO, is their ability to divide the pool world. People that would otherwise probably get along great, go nuts over these systems. Its kind of like a republican and a democrat, having tons of hobbies in common, but deep down they think the other guy is a wack job because of their political bias. (And I don't intend to make this a political post!, just using that as a strong comparison).

 

[TATE]

Open Billiards Market

Oh yeah, I'm a member of that. I sold some stuff there free. It's great.

 

[ribdoner]

Actually I was banned less than 10 times and each time I acknowledged that I broke the rules with ONE exception where I was unfairly banned and I appealed and the ban was rescinded.

And for the record, I put up a lot of good content and what I didn't put up with was the completely unfair defamatory attacks.

You have put up good content here in the past and i had the pleasure of owning one of your late model leather cases a while ago which was well made.

Food for thought: the reason your in the top 1% of AZ members with the most occurrences of banning is because you havn't developed the ability to make a point when arguing/debating and then disengaging.

 

[TATE]

Food for thought: the reason your in the top 1% of AZ members with the most occurrences of banning is because you havn't developed the ability to make a point when arguing/debating and then disengaging.

John, I tried to be supportive for years due to our common interest in cases and history, but you just derailed yourself over and over for the above reason. You view yourself as a victim getting picked on, but switch to offense to lash out at your perceived enemies, in fact becoming the bully you decry. Everything that's happened to you was at your own hand.