Slipstroke: Loose Grip = CB Action

[Bob Jewett]

One thing for those who promote the slip stroke to consider is that top carom players, who routinely need amazing action with precision on the cue ball, uniformly use sticky rubber wraps which render slipping nearly impossible. Such wraps also allow a loose grip without any danger of slip.

And I'll go out on a strong limb to claim that no snooker player in the top 200 has ever tried to use a slip stroke and if asked they would dismiss it as insanity.

 

[alstl]

I wouldn't attempt to speak for anyone else but I never think about my grip. I tend to have a very loose grip but I don't think about it. I think about the bridge. I use mostly an open bridge except in certain circumstances because I started out as a teenager playing exclusively snooker so an open bridge is what I'm comfortable with. For me doing what is comfortable is the main thing.

 

[Straightpool_99]

Try using only the wrist to propel the CB: get in stance with the tip at the CB (forearm straight up & down) and hit the CB by moving only your wrist. You might be surprised at how little speed you can add that way. The "whipsnap" effect doesn't work with your arm/wrist.

pj
chgo

Actually, this is a legitimate technique, used sometimes in Billiards, for situations where you might otherwise double hit the cueball. You can generate a decent amount of power, with training. Try it for jumpshots, too. If a person is completely unable to jump, especially with a full cue, I'd immidiately suspect that they are not utilizing their wrist.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Actually, this is a legitimate technique, used sometimes in Billiards, for situations where you might otherwise double hit the cueball. You can generate a decent amount of power, with training. Try it for jumpshots, too. If a person is completely unable to jump, especially with a full cue, I'd immidiately suspect that they are not utilizing their wrist.

Yes, a wrist only "stroke" makes sense for avoiding double hits. But color me skeptical about the rest - at least until I see somebody jumping without moving their forearm.

pj
chgo

 

[The_JV]

And I'll go out on a strong limb to claim that no snooker player in the top 200 has ever tried to use a slip stroke and if asked they would dismiss it as insanity.

That's only because they are stcuk in tradition and have zero clue how to efficiently pot balls and/or control the CB...

 

[Bob Jewett]

That's only because they are stuck in tradition and have zero clue how to efficiently pot balls and/or control the CB...

And Ronnie's 1000 centuries in competition were achieved by mass hypnosis rather than any slight skill he might have.

 

[bubolt14]

I wish I had some video of the late great Pat Howey RIP he was from Rochester NY and had what was a perfect slip stroke. He was a very good straight pool player, and was NY state champ on a couple of occasions and a good 9 ball money player.....along with that he won various tournaments.....Back in those days he went through a lot of baby powder....LOL

 

[34YearsOfPlayin]

a loose or death grip does exactly the same thing for me. i notice no difference

 

[34YearsOfPlayin]

Yes, a wrist only "stroke" makes sense for avoiding double hits. But color me skeptical about the rest - at least until I see somebody jumping without moving their forearm.

pj
chgo

i bet you wish you could play with a real cue instead of a scientific calculator, the feedback you get would give results that do not lie ;-)

 

[gerryf]

I've watched a local semi-pro shooting where he says he moves only his wrist, but everyone watching sees that he moves his forearm plus his wrist.

One of the most valuable lessons i learned was a brief session with a professional instructor. In five minutes, he showed me that in four separate components of my shooting, I wasn't doing what i was certain i was doing. I've had lessons from professionals, and I'm firmly convinced that a training session with a professional instructor is far more valuable that a training session with a professional player.

The science matters.

 

[ShootingArts]

The science matters and many people don't do what they think they do making video important! I walked behind 48 shooters one day; over forty weren't doing what they thought they did!

Here is a very short nineteen second video of a slipstroke used to increase "stroke and turn". Don't bother to ask me what the carom player means by that, maybe some of the carom players on here can shed light! A nice clean slipstroke though.

Slip Stroke - YouTube

A little about grip, in my experimenting days I tried everything from holding the cue so softly it did fall sometimes to the tightest grip possible, 120-140 PSI. I couldn't find any grip that didn't work just as well as any other. With a death grip I was only up to about two hours of play and I had some very painfully sore muscles in my right arm the day after play. Shot just fine though, with practice. Today, if not playing with the slipstroke, I hold a cuestick just tightly enough to control it. Just as a guess with nothing to back the number up I would say around 10 PSI give or take a few pounds.

About the wrist snap, seems like Colin Colypso, if I have the name right, found one or two miles an hour there when he was working on break speed. The trick is that the wrist snap has to be carefully coordinated to work. I think large body movement was another serious contributor to speed but again this effort was long ago.

When it comes to stroke, best seems to be in the eyes of the beholder or beerholder.

Hu

 

[jviss]

And Ronnie's 1000 centuries in competition were achieved by mass hypnosis rather than any slight skill he might have.

Now 1,079 century breaks and 15 maximums (147) in competition.

(BTW, Bob is to modest to say that he played pool with Ronnie. )

 

[jviss]

That's only because they are stcuk in tradition and have zero clue how to efficiently pot balls and/or control the CB...

That's kinda silly. Have you ever watched or played snooker?

 

[The_JV]

That's kinda silly. Have you ever watched or played snooker?

oh yes... It was a sarcastic comment based on repeated claims on AZB, that snooker is stuck in traditon and refuses to change, rather than admitting they have it all figure out.

 

[jviss]

oh yes... It was a sarcastic comment based on repeated claims on AZB, that snooker is stuck in traditon and refuses to change, rather than admitting they have it all figure out.

Cool. That said, I play snooker in a league, and watch way too much snooker on youtube; and, I confess when I've noticed a pro player's grip, it's always very firm.

 

[Biloxi Boy]

It appears to me that a classic slip stroke is nothing more than a repositioning of one's hand toward the butt end of a cue just prior to "pulling the trigger". The "problem" that I see is a) one unconciously grips the cue at different points depending on body posture dictated by the position of the balls (balance and reach being primary concerns), b) one then takes practice strokes to determine everything is copacetic, c) then, at a critical juncture, one changes the position of his grip.

To my way of thinking, this is just something I would not do -- if I intend to "strike" with my hand all the way aft, that is where I want my hand in the first place. As I have been considering the issue, I have become convinced that the rule of grip and stroke for the initiated is "whatever floats your boat" -- if we have kept playing, we have somehow accomodated our problems because, otherwise, the frustration of missing would have caused us to quit. The question then becomes, what do you tell the beginner.

 

[The_JV]

It appears to me that a classic slip stroke is nothing more than a repositioning of one's hand toward the butt end of a cue just prior to "pulling the trigger". The "problem" that I see is a) one unconciously grips the cue at different points depending on body posture dictated by the position of the balls (balance and reach being primary concerns), b) one then takes practice strokes to determine everything is copacetic, c) then, at a critical juncture, one changes the position of his grip.

To my way of thinking, this is just something I would not do -- if I intend to "strike" with my hand all the way aft, that is where I want my hand in the first place. As I have been considering the issue, I have become convinced that the rule of grip and stroke.

Can't agree more... During my point of contact my forearm is in the neutral (vertical position) of my stroke. Sliding my hand backward prior to actually striking the ball would throw all this off. I guess the idea is to 'short stroke' during practice strokes, so the after the slip is applied the forearm is then vertical...?

It obviously works with practice, but I struggle with what possible gains that could be had vs the additonal variables it adds that need control.

 

[ShootingArts]

It appears to me that a classic slip stroke is nothing more than a repositioning of one's hand toward the butt end of a cue just prior to "pulling the trigger". The "problem" that I see is a) one unconciously grips the cue at different points depending on body posture dictated by the position of the balls (balance and reach being primary concerns), b) one then takes practice strokes to determine everything is copacetic, c) then, at a critical juncture, one changes the position of his grip.

To my way of thinking, this is just something I would not do -- if I intend to "strike" with my hand all the way aft, that is where I want my hand in the first place. As I have been considering the issue, I have become convinced that the rule of grip and stroke for the initiated is "whatever floats your boat" -- if we have kept playing, we have somehow accomodated our problems because, otherwise, the frustration of missing would have caused us to quit. The question then becomes, what do you tell the beginner.

Now consider what we do with everything but a slip stroke. We carefully make whatever our choice number of practice swings is, then on our final forward stroke after we have grooved everything in perfectly, we change the range and speed of our stroke, adding typically four to six inches to it! Our biggest flaw is that in all of our practice strokes we have been stopping the cue before the cue ball, "training" the muscles in our arm to do this. Now all of a sudden on the most critical stroke, we change the demand on our arm muscles!

With the slip stroke we can hit the cue ball, and through the cue ball, with the exact same speed and range of stroke we have been using in our practice strokes! Some slip strokes are less than two inches and most users don't use a big slip. Aside from the artistic element which doesn't chop any cotton, there are real advantages to the slip stroke. That cursed shot with the cue ball frozen on the rail is easier to make with a slip stroke than any other method I have found.

There are flaws in every stroke we use. God didn't engineer us to play pool otherwise we would have a linier bearing somewhere in our stroking forearm. A properly executed slip stroke is no better or worse than any other stroke as far as mechanical flaws. The release and regrip that many see as a major issue is actually the slightest of finger movements between barely slipping and barely not slipping. Practice partners have noticed I am using a slip stroke that day only after hours of play and I am a poor practitioner of it. With a table at home I may get it going a little better again though. The fact that it is a pleasure to use is enough reason for me. With an inability to play as low as I once did I find the pendulum to work poorly. A full arm motion always made more mechanical sense to me anyway so swapping between a piston with and without a slip stroke will probably be my future options. The advantages of a pendulum, assuming you can get low enough to use it, have always seemed more in teaching and troubleshooting than it being a superior stroke.

Anyhow, if we start listing pros and cons of every stroke we will probably find that they tally up pretty close to the same number. Of course I can add the slip stroke to the pendulum if I want to, and get the disadvantages of both!(grin)

Hu