A real CTE shot for you to try.

mohrt

Student of the Game
Silver Member
CTE_SL_AL.png


I'm going to explain how to shoot this shot into the upper right corner pocket using real CTE. Anyone that wants to give this an honest try, please do so and report back to this post. And by honest try, I mean give it at least 10 tries, hopefully many more, and be willing to throw out your old habits for a bit while you follow exactly the instructions I give you. If you don't want to try, don't reply. Thanks.

I'll start off by saying that this will be a lot of steps, as I'm going to try to be as detailed as possible. The whole process becomes a nearly unconscious fell swoop once you get the hang of it.

So, this shot falls into the "30 degree perception" of CTE perceptions. The exact angle to the pocket is irrelevant. On the photo I drew a red line and a yellow line for reference, these are not 2D angles, they are for your eyes. The red line, which is center cueball to left edge of object ball (OB), is the "site line" or SL. The yellow line, which is cueball right edge (CRE) to OB center is the "aim line" or AL. A good habit is to use the OB and CB equator to find center ball.

For this shot, your left eye will be dominant for the (red) SL, and your right eye will be dominant for the (yellow) AL. For this to work, your nose must slightly be turned to the right of center cueball (CBB). This is the "angled face", or "poke your head out" as Hal used to say. When your nose is to the right, your eyes look slightly left. There is only one place where you will see the SL and AL perfectly. Emphasis is on the AL. As Stan says, "stand behind the AL such that you can see the SL", so make sure that head is poked to see AL clearly! Don't worry about the exact angle of your face, just worry about getting SL and AL perfect (it will be roughly toward the pocket we are shooting into.) That will give you everything. It will no doubt take a little practice as this is very different from conventional aiming. However, our visual intelligence learns quickly. So at at ball address, or "out of the box", align your face to the shot so that the above instructions are followed. Your cue is not swung into any shooting position yet.

From this perception, or offset, you can easily find the actual shot line, and here is how. Without moving your head or body, but only your eyes, switch your focus to the right edge of the CB. With your focus here you will (peripherally) see a new cueball center. This process is called "stepping the cueball." THAT new center is the shot line. You can now switch your eyes directly onto it. Or back to the CRE. Or back to SL/AL. All with your eyes. Now, if you wanted to, you could hold your focus on the shot line, go right into full stance or "in the box", and swing your cue right onto that line (in a natural way for you) and shoot the shot. This is very much what "Pro One" is, and this is a very valid way of using CTE. No physical pivot! You basically take your eyes from an offset position and slide into "target shooting" position behind the shot line, just like conventional aiming. But that is not the instruction I'm giving for this post. Keep that in your back pocket, you might like it.

Now, here is how we transfer from ball address to full stance. You have the perfect perception, left eye dominant for SL and right eye dominant for AL. Now, keep your focus on the SL all the way down to full stance. Do not lose it. For this particular shot both the SL and AL can be kept in perfect view, but the SL is the main focus. Now that you are down in full stance, check that the SL and AL still look perfect. Your face may angle slightly more at this position, which is natural. Go ahead and tweak until SL/AL are perfect, in case you got out of alignment on your way down to full stance. (Eventually this becomes completely unconscious.)

Now that we are in full stance, head position still at an offset to see the SL and AL, focus your eyes on the cueball right edge (CRE). You will see a new cueball center. This is "stepping the cueball." (Stepping with the right edge of the CB is equivalent to a "right pivot" in Basic CTE.) That is the shot line, or what Stan calls the NISL (No Imaginary Shot Line). This is the line you want to put your cue on. That is the shot.

Now, how should you transfer your cue stick to that line? Really all roads lead to Rome from here, but there are some discreet options.

One option is to slide the cue onto the NISL in one smooth motion as you move from ball address to full stance. This is what is termed "disguised pivoting", as there is no physical pivot involved, it's all done with the eyes. Your eyes are still on the SL/AL offset, your eyes find the NISL and your cue (and bridge) moves right onto the NISL. From here you can easily double check the SL and the NISL back and forth (or just "all at once" after this becomes automatic.) You can shoot your shot from here, no need to move anything. (This is easily my favorite way to use CTE.)

Other options are Basic CTE pivots and full ball pivots, but we'll leave those out of this post for now.

That's it, that's basically the whole process in a nutshell for a 30 degree perception. You can probably figure out the left cut shot as everything is mirrored (including face angle), but we'll leave that for another post.

Let me know how it goes!
 
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Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
There is only one place where you will see the SL and AL perfectly.

Without moving your head or body, but only your eyes, switch your focus to the right edge of the CB. With your focus here you will (peripherally) see a new cueball center. This process is called "stepping the cueball." THAT new center is the shot line.
What if I move both balls a half diamond farther from the pocket on the same center line? It's still a 30-degree perception, the SL and AL are the same, and you say there's only one head position where I'll see them perfectly... so how do I see a different "new cueball center"?

pj
chgo
 

mohrt

Student of the Game
Silver Member
What if I move both balls a half diamond farther from the pocket on the same center line? It's still a 30-degree perception, the SL and AL are the same, and you say there's only one head position where I'll see them perfectly... so how do I see a different "new cueball center"?

pj
chgo

Since you replied, I take it you gave this shot an honest try? How did it go? I’ll address your question if you did.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Since you replied, I take it you gave this shot an honest try? How did it go? I’ll address your question if you did.
Don't hold your breath. You won't get the truth anyway. PJ has stated before that he has this incredible ability and gift, "SPATIAL INTELLIGENCE". He doesn't need to get on the table because he can just see it in his minds eye. Funny how that works because he's at best, a B to B- player which is as high as it ever went. Does one get better or worse at 73 years of age which he now is? The majority of his time is on the forum and who knows how many other forums. It's not at the table.

Hold true to your statement and don't tell him squat because he didn't get on the table. The better thing to do is ask him what he saw and envisioned while he was setting up and describe how it was done and then the result he produced.
 

duckie

GregH
Silver Member
The angle to the pocket does matter since the angle controls how much energy is transfer from CB to OB.

Most not be a position player......
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
The angle to the pocket does matter since the angle controls how much energy is transfer from CB to OB.

Most not be a position player......
You're not very observant, are you. It's an 8 ball. Knock it in and game over. No position needed.
 

mohrt

Student of the Game
Silver Member
The angle to the pocket does matter since the angle controls how much energy is transfer from CB to OB.

Most not be a position player......
Did you give the shot an honest try, or are you just making up excuses?
[edit] Oh I forgot, duckie is immediately going to be lost with the ball edge, so he shouldn't even be in this thread.
 

duckie

GregH
Silver Member
Whenever someone states a certain part of a shot doesnt matter, my bullshit meter goes off.

A shot is putting the balls where you want. Not just somewhere in the pocket or on table but exact placement where you need them.

Where the CB goes after contacting the OB needs to be always practiced.

So in this shot.......where do you want to CB to go?
 

mohrt

Student of the Game
Silver Member
Whenever someone states a certain part of a shot doesnt matter, my bullshit meter goes off.

A shot is putting the balls where you want. Not just somewhere in the pocket or on table but exact placement where you need them.

Where the CB goes after contacting the OB needs to be always practiced.

So in this shot.......where do you want to CB to go?
This focus of this post isn't about cue ball control, its about potting the ball using CTE. But if you need guidance, just hit the ball center, medium speed. Pretend it's the last ball on the table in 8 ball. When I say "angle doesn't matter", I mean you don't need to address the angle of the shot to follow my instructions and pot the ball. This would be apparent if you actually tried it. Too many people have paralysis by analysis without even trying. That's what this post is for, give it an honest try and report back. I also clearly stated in paragraph 1: If you don't want to try, don't reply.
 
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SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Whenever someone states a certain part of a shot doesnt matter, my bullshit meter goes off.

A shot is putting the balls where you want. Not just somewhere in the pocket or on table but exact placement where you need them.

Where the CB goes after contacting the OB needs to be always practiced.

So in this shot.......where do you want to CB to go?
Are you still playing in that handicap league where you were the one getting huge spots when playing against "A" players? "B" players also?

I
 

duckie

GregH
Silver Member
Know what Id like to see........a CTE user do this shot but state what part of the pocket the ball goes into........ center pocket, left or right of center pocket.

Ever hear of what Z shot? It comes in handy when your opponent likes to block a pocket with one of their balls. If the blocking ball is in the right position, you can make your ball by going rail first, then carom off the back of the blocking ball into the pocket.

Something other than that the ball goes anywhere in the pocket.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Know what Id like to see........a CTE user do this shot but state what part of the pocket the ball goes into........ center pocket, left or right of center pocket.

Ever hear of what Z shot? It comes in handy when your opponent likes to block a pocket with one of their balls. If the blocking ball is in the right position, you can make your ball by going rail first, then carom off the back of the blocking ball into the pocket.

Something other than that the ball goes anywhere in the pocket.
ROTFLMAO. Right! That ONE SHOT determines whether a player is a real player instead of a wanna be. I wonder if Tyler Styer had to shoot that shot as evidence to qualify for two Mosconi Cup teams?
 

mohrt

Student of the Game
Silver Member
Know what Id like to see........a CTE user do this shot but state what part of the pocket the ball goes into........ center pocket, left or right of center pocket.

Ever hear of what Z shot? It comes in handy when your opponent likes to block a pocket with one of their balls. If the blocking ball is in the right position, you can make your ball by going rail first, then carom off the back of the blocking ball into the pocket.

Something other than that the ball goes anywhere in the pocket.
Adjustments can be made to the SL to play into left or right of center pocket. That is discussed in Stan's truth series. And not a focus for this thread. You know what I'd like to see: someone give this shot an honest try at the table and report back.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Mohrt, since yours is the first complete, step-by-step instructions I've seen posted, I gave it a try during my morning practice today (pic of the setup below).

Following your instructions as best I could, I was successful a high percentage of tries. But since I know that this setup is a dead half ball shot to the corner (including a "slight overcut for throw"), I'm pretty sure that the "new cueball center" I saw was influenced by that knowledge.

Now that I've given your instructions a fair try I hope you'll try to answer my question:

If I move the two balls a half diamond farther from the pocket (nearer to me) and do exactly the same things, why won't I get exactly the same cut angle and hit the long rail a half diamond up from the pocket? What should I do differently to make the second shot?

Thanks in advance,

pj
chgo

Mohrt's CTE shot.jpg
 

mohrt

Student of the Game
Silver Member
Mohrt, since yours is the first complete, step-by-step instructions I've seen posted, I gave it a try during my morning practice today (pic of the setup below).

Following your instructions as best I could, I was successful a high percentage of tries. But since I know that this setup is a dead half ball shot to the corner (including a "slight overcut for throw"), I'm pretty sure that the "new cueball center" I saw was influenced by that knowledge.

Now that I've given your instructions a fair try I hope you'll try to answer my question:

If I move the two balls a half diamond farther from the pocket (nearer to me) and do exactly the same things, why won't I get exactly the same cut angle and hit the long rail a half diamond up from the pocket? What should I do differently to make the second shot?

Thanks in advance,

pj
chgo

View attachment 590009
I'm glad you gave it a go and had success with it. So, I went ahead and tried your test myself: I moved the OB and CB 1/2 diamond closer to me, and tried applying the exact same process. The ball still went in perfectly into the hole. Therefore this shot still falls within the 30 degree perception with inside pivot (stepping right-edge of CB.) Did you try it?

As to why: every unique CB/OB orientation on the table has a unique perception. Even though you follow the same literal steps, the perception is unique. So before you refute that being possible, I'd like you to test your shot. Move the balls 1/2 diamond closer to yourself, and again follow the instructions with exact same level of scrutiny you did before. Do not let the pocket influence you. I'd be interested to hear the results.

Note: even though the first shot works with a half-ball hit, that's not the intent of this post. Use the steps for CTE to make all shots. It is highly unlikely shots will line up on the table at an exact half ball hit in a game.
 
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Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
...every unique CB/OB orientation on the table has a unique perception. Even though you follow the same literal steps, the perception is unique.
Do not let the pocket influence you.
I was hoping you'd come up with something I hadn't heard before, but thanks for at least confirming for me that what CTE means by "perception" is still the same as what I mean by "know it when you see it" or aiming "by feel". I don't mean that as a criticism of CTE - I assume CTE's unique vocabulary helps build confidence in it, and of course confidence in your aiming method is essential to your success with it.

By the way, I think that language difference is another good reason for CTE to have its own forum where interested readers won't run into so many critical-sounding questions from confused onlookers like me. If I was Stan I'd ask his AzB supporters to confine their discussion of it to his or his supporters' forums which can be moderated by CTE users (like yours, for instance) - given its different vocabulary it's not a topic that's well suited for open discussion in a public forum, as we can see by the meltdowns it inevitably causes.

Thanks again for giving it an honest try with me,

pj
chgo
 

mohrt

Student of the Game
Silver Member
So did you even try your shot with the instructions without letting your knowledge of what you think you know influence the shot? There is no guessing at what your eyes tell you.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
So did you even try your shot with the instructions without letting your knowledge of what you think you know influence the shot? There is no guessing at what your eyes tell you.
Never saw the "different perception" you mention - but then I don't believe in that (remembering the old adage about doing the exact same thing and expecting different results), so no surprise there. No problem - I was glad to finally have clear instructions to try. CTE clearly isn't for me, but I'm glad other less literal players can find it helpful.

pj
chgo
 

mohrt

Student of the Game
Silver Member
So, did you give your shot an honest try? That’s all I’m asking. Don’t let what you think you know through what seems logical influence you. Just follow your eyes. To be honest, you could not make your shot hit the rail 1/2 diamond up unless you purposely fight where your eyes lead.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Don’t let what you think you know through what seems logical influence you.
Sorry, but to me that means "tell yourself you're doing the same thing while subconsciously letting feel take over". I already aim by feel (with the help of my own objective references), and I'd rather keep making that choice consciously.

Enjoy your system on your terms.

pj
chgo
 
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