Master mech at work at the Pred event now

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
As I said before I am not in Vegas. So anything I could suggest would just be speculation. When the tables get back to Jax, I will do my HOMEWORK.

And by the way, the tables do not lift out of the cart.
With you being a master mechanic and all, WHY was Ernesto brought on board to solve your CROWNED slate problems in Phoenix?? I'd be willing to bet he never checked the frames for being flat, because way to many people that work on pool tables always assume the crowned slates are the problem, leading to drilling the slates to pull them down to the frame to level them out! Only problem is, that don't work for shit if the frame is crowned, the slates are already down in the middle as far as they can sit, the frame is HIGH in the middle, thats whats causing the slates to APPEAR as if they're crowned!!
 
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realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
As I said before I am not in Vegas. So anything I could suggest would just be speculation. When the tables get back to Jax, I will do my HOMEWORK.

And by the way, the tables do not lift out of the cart.
I'm not trying to place blame on you for the disaster these tables have caused in Phoenix or Vegas, those problems are solely the manufacturers problems!
 

juspooln

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
With you being a master mechanic and all, WHY was Ernesto brought on board to solve your CROWNED slate problems in Phoenix?? I'd be willing to bet he never checked the frames for being flat, because way to many people that work on pool tables always assume the crowned slates are the problem, leading to drilling the slates to pull them down to the frame to level them out! Only problem is, that don't work for shit if the frame is crowned, the slates are already down in the middle as far as they can sit, the frame is HIGH in the middle, thats whats causing the slates to APPEAR as if they're crowned!!
Sorry, you have heard wrong again. Ernesto was not brought on board for that.
 

juspooln

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Only problem is, that don't work for shit if the frame is crowned, the slates are already down in the middle as far as they can sit, the frame is HIGH in the middle, thats whats causing the slates to APPEAR as if they're crowned!!
Sorry again. Not the reason for that issue at the first stop in AZ.
 

juspooln

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm not trying to place blame on you for the disaster these tables have caused in Phoenix or Vegas, those problems are solely the manufacturers problems!
The blame is not to be placed solely on any one thing or person(s). It takes a team to get a tour like this off the ground. We all joy when successful and suffer when it's not. It would have been tough to pull it all off without problems, in this timeframe, if there was no pandemic tossed in on top.
 

juspooln

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I didn't see Ernesto in pictures on top of one of those tables in Phoenix drilling the slates out to screw them down?
I did not say he wasn't there. Ernesto and Oscar were already a planned part of the setup.

And as stated before he fixed the problem the way he was most comfortable. I fixed it the way I was.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
I did not say he wasn't there. Ernesto and Oscar were already a planned part of the setup.

And as stated before he fixed the problem the way he was most comfortable. I fixed it the way I was.
And no one thinks of inserting barrel nuts into the slate, connected to all thread rods, that can simply be unscrewed when taking the tables apart, instead of having to dig out the slate screws holding the middle of the slates down.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
I did not say he wasn't there. Ernesto and Oscar were already a planned part of the setup.

And as stated before he fixed the problem the way he was most comfortable. I fixed it the way I was.
If Ernesto and Oscar were as good of table mechanics as everyone makes them out to be, they wouldn't have had to replace all the GC4s at Hard Times when Oscar bought it, the tables played horrible, which is why all the players complained to much about the tables, which is why Oscar bought new Diamonds, yet, from the time those tables were installed, in until the time they were replaced, THEY were the only ones that ever worked on them! Mike, the previous own of Hard Times gave me a deposit to rebuild one of the GC4s in the tournament room on a Friday, to start the job on Monday. He played pool on his lawyers GC3 I have just finished rebuilding, over the weekend. On Monday when I got to the pool room, Mike met me, and we had lunch together, at which time he told me about playing on the GC3 I had just rebuilt. To my surprise, he told me to go ahead and keep the deposit, and he'd pay for lunch, because he changed his mind about letting me rebuild the one GC4, because it would result in him having to pay me to rebuild ALL the GCs, 31 of them, because my work was so much better than he had ever seen, and he just couldn't afford for me to get my foot in the door like that. I had already rebuilt some GCs and Diamonds up in Chico that quite a few of his gamblers play on, and they had been bugging him to have me do the work at Hard Times as well. So I just laughed about it and called Mike a chicken, he started laughing and making chicken sounds!!😅
 

TrxR

Well-known member
Why is everyone so secretive about what the actual problem was? To me being transparent of the problem and fixing it at the manufacturing point is worth alot to a perspective buyer.
 

juspooln

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And no one thinks of inserting barrel nuts into the slate, connected to all thread rods, that can simply be unscrewed when taking the tables apart, instead of having to dig out the slate screws holding the middle of the slates down.
How would you possibly know what was discussed.

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juspooln

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I didn't choose either option for this particular situation. I was able to fix it with a few extra minutes as part of my normal setup.

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realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Why is everyone so secretive about what the actual problem was? To me being transparent of the problem and fixing it at the manufacturing point is worth alot to a perspective buyer.
Yep, I agree. Kind of like when so many people complained about how the Diamond Red label tables played so springy a d banked short. When I redesigned the rails for Diamond, I fully explained why they played that way, and what I did to redesign them and created the Blue label rails. People understood the change, and sales exploded, and that was 12 years ago.

I'm currently making another change in how the Diamond tables play for the better, but the change has nothing to do with the table design, I think its fine the way it is today. This change is in a different area that effects the play of the table.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
How would you possibly know what was discussed.

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Because I've seen the tables, seen the frame design, seen your table lifter, and have the experience of working on, fixing, and redesigning, as well as design and manufacturing experience which spans 40 years in this industry!
 

DeeDeeCues

Well-known member
Yep, I agree. Kind of like when so many people complained about how the Diamond Red label tables played so springy a d banked short. When I redesigned the rails for Diamond, I fully explained why they played that way, and what I did to redesign them and created the Blue label rails. People understood the change, and sales exploded, and that was 12 years ago.

I'm currently making another change in how the Diamond tables play for the better, but the change has nothing to do with the table design, I think its fine the way it is today. This change is in a different area that effects the play of the table.

Why are diamond tables still so springy, and why do they still bank short?
 

juspooln

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Because I've seen the tables, seen the frame design, seen your table lifter, and have the experience of working on, fixing, and redesigning, as well as design and manufacturing experience which spans 40 years in this industry!
That has no bearing on you knowing what I know and what was discussed.

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juspooln

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why is everyone so secretive about what the actual problem was? To me being transparent of the problem and fixing it at the manufacturing point is worth alot to a perspective buyer.
The tournament tables and the tables that will be sold to the public are not the same. I have had or not heard of any problems w/ the ones available to the public.

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juspooln

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If Ernesto and Oscar were as good of table mechanics as everyone makes them out to be, they wouldn't have had to replace all the GC4s at Hard Times when Oscar bought it, the tables played horrible, which is why all the players complained to much about the tables, which is why Oscar bought new Diamonds, yet, from the time those tables were installed, in until the time they were replaced, THEY were the only ones that ever worked on them! Mike, the previous own of Hard Times gave me a deposit to rebuild one of the GC4s in the tournament room on a Friday, to start the job on Monday. He played pool on his lawyers GC3 I have just finished rebuilding, over the weekend. On Monday when I got to the pool room, Mike met me, and we had lunch together, at which time he told me about playing on the GC3 I had just rebuilt. To my surprise, he told me to go ahead and keep the deposit, and he'd pay for lunch, because he changed his mind about letting me rebuild the one GC4, because it would result in him having to pay me to rebuild ALL the GCs, 31 of them, because my work was so much better than he had ever seen, and he just couldn't afford for me to get my foot in the door like that. I had already rebuilt some GCs and Diamonds up in Chico that quite a few of his gamblers play on, and they had been bugging him to have me do the work at Hard Times as well. So I just laughed about it and called Mike a chicken, he started laughing and making chicken sounds!!
I don't understand you're reasoning behind posting this here. Are you suggesting that your understanding of this situation somehow makes Ernesto and Oscar unable to assist in setting up the event in AZ.

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