Pool Eras

[MattPoland]

I think another era is getting a toehold
The one pocket era
It’s had the most money bet for the last 50 years

It’s getting there. There’s three sides to the billiards coin. One is the amateur feeder system of leagues and Vegas tournaments to keep fans playing and buying gear. Two is commercial with Matchroom and Predator pushing rotation games and creating heroes of our champions. Three is the action side with long races, Derby and Buffalos. It’s not a far stretch from the Johnston City days but it’s no longer a secret affair. With that I do see more interest in 1P. I don’t think it’ll take over as the commercial game but it’s certainly thriving.

 

[JAM]

1961-1985: Hustler Era
> Hall, Sigel, Hopkins, Mizerak

These are not "Hustler era" players, in my opinion, with the exception of Buddy Hall. Just saying. I could think of many, many other names that fit in that era much better.

And the Color of Money era, no mention Keith McCready? Kind of odd to not include him since he's most famous for that movie as Grady Seasons and still gets asked about it today in 2022 for a 1986 movie. [Edited: Thank you for the correction, Arnaldo]

Well, Keith belongs in both of those eras, in my opinion, and the the Hustler era should include players like Grady Mathews Buddy Hall (I agree), St. Louis Louie Roberts, Minnesota Fats (probably the biggest hustler of them all), Cliff Joyner, Billy Incardona, Larry Lisciotti, Cornbread Red, Jimmy Reid, and Ronnie Allen. Keith should be in there too because he was, most definitely, a road player and a hustler, much more so than the tournament soldiers and BCA "darlings" of that era.

These Who's the Best threads are based on age of the person who lists names and region of the country they live in, I think. Young people have no idea how players from the past played or who many of them are, as well as some people don't know how players from, say, New York played compared to players from, say, Texas. It's a regional thing that people know about and are not familiar with other regions.

 

[evergruven]

There’s gotta be a few….Shane comes to mind first because of money management.
The Lion and Robocop have won millions….but they’ve been known to reinvest unwisely.
Mike Sigel is a millionaire suspect.
Lot of snooker millionaires

top 15, per our own azb (https://www.azbilliards.com/leaderboard/?player_gender=All&pyear=9999):

1	M	Pool	PHI	Efren Reyes	$2,137,023.00
2	M	Pool	USA	Shane Van Boening	$2,069,499.00
3	M	Pool	PHI	Dennis Orcollo	$1,765,124.00
4	M	Pool	FIN	Mika Immonen	$1,623,350.00
5	M	Pool	PHI	Francisco Bustamante	$1,447,932.00
6	M	Pool	CAN	Alex Pagulayan	$1,409,429.00
7	M	Pool	GER	Thorsten Hohmann	$1,374,572.00
8	M	Pool	GER	Ralf Souquet	$1,371,455.00
9	M	Pool	NED	Niels Feijen	$1,244,049.00
10	M	Pool	GBR	Darren Appleton	$1,238,494.00
11	W	Pool	GBR	Allison Fisher	$1,225,442.00
12	M	Pool	USA	Johnny Archer	$1,211,253.00
13	M	Pool	USA	Corey Deuel	$1,163,805.00
14	M	Pool	USA	Rodney Morris	$961,910.00
15	W	Pool	IRL	Karen Corr	$937,116.00

 

[Fatboy]

No I will disagree about that their have been those event many years ago like Cleveland Elementary in Stockton, CA., 35 plus years ago.

Study history terrible things have happen before last week.

Pool history was subject, era of Pool has changed over time.

In the Mosconi Autobiography, Willie’s Game believe was name, it was started. Pool is and has never been as big as year of Willie’s Birth, 1913.

I remember that Stockton shooting.

 

[mikemosconi]

Here’s my attempt at it..

1850-1870s: American 4 ball Era
> Phelan

1870s-1890s: Straight Rail Era
> Schaefer

1890s-1910s: Balkline Era
> Hoppe

1920s-1960s: Golden Era
> Greenleaf, Mosconi, Crane, Lassiter, Moore

1961-1985: Hustler Era
> Hall, Sigel, Hopkins, Mizerak

1986-1995: Color of Money Era
> Reyes, Strickland, Varner, Archer

1996-2005: Decline Era
> Reyes, Parica, Immonen, Daulton, Hohmann, Souquet

2006-2015: Rebuilding Era
> SVB, Appleton, Orcollo, Pagalayan, Wu, Ko

2015-Current: Matchroom Era
> Shaw, Filler, Gorst, Ouschan

I’m not trying to be comprehensive in terms of players listed. Just setting a tone. Some era may be worth subdividing or being relabeled.

Agree for the most part, however; 1961 to around 1969 still saw mostly Balsis, Crane, Lassiter, Murphy, dominating 14.1 and I remember , at least until the later 1960s that 14.1 was the game that many players sought out as their primary goal in learning pool in general. Most books written on pool instruction in the 1960s centered on 14.1.

 

[Black-Balled]

Is there a second millionaire?

Yes, but he was a multimillionaire before pool.

 

[MattPoland]

These are not "Hustler era" players, in my opinion, with the exception of Buddy Hall. Just saying. I could think of many, many other names that fit in that era much better.

And the Color of Money era, no mention Keith McCready? Kind of odd to not include him since he's most famous for that movie as Grady Mathews and still gets asked about it today in 2022 for a 1986 movie.

Well, Keith belongs in both of those eras, in my opinion, and the the Hustler era should include players like Grady Mathews Buddy Hall (I agree), St. Louis Louie Roberts, Minnesota Fats (probably the biggest hustler of them all), Cliff Joyner, Billy Incardona, Larry Lisciotti, Cornbread Red, Jimmy Reid, and Ronnie Allen. Keith should be in there too because he was, most definitely, a road player and a hustler, much more so than the tournament soldiers and BCA "darlings" of that era.

These Who's the Best threads are based on age of the person who lists names and region of the country they live in, I think. Young people have no idea how players from the past played or who many of them are, as well as some people don't know how players from, say, New York played compared to players from, say, Texas. It's a regional thing that people know about and are not familiar with other regions.

Keep in mind this isn’t a “Who’s the Best” thread at all. It’s a labeling of pool eras thread. The movie “The Hustler” came out in 1961 and spurred a revitalization of the pool in the years that followed. I did not label that era “The Hustler Era” because it was defined by road dogs hustling across America (even though that certainly was occurring in that and other eras). I labeled it due to the revitalization of pool from the movie. I do welcome other thoughts on labels and time periods.

The players listed are not meant to be who is the best of that era. They are merely meant to be a sampling of players that were winning notable titles during that time. For modern eras I sampled players that were winning US Opens, Derby and making Mosconi Cup appearances. For older eras I would look at the BCA Hall of Fame and look at their Wikipedia pages for sections like “Titles and Achievements” and take note which decades most of their titles were in. As such in noticed there were some players that spanned eras since I’m artificially punctuating a continuum and some players had notable longevity. I also noticed there were cohorts of players that were commonly identified together. But overall listing them was just to give a flavor of the era only. I do welcome feedback on what sampling of players help define a era in the event an era is not being portrayed effectively. But again I don’t want to try to be comprehensive. If I have 5 names, I’m happy.

 

[kling&allen]

Agree for the most part, however; 1961 to around 1969 still saw mostly Balsis, Crane, Lassiter, Murphy, dominating 14.1 and I remember , at least until the later 1960s that 14.1 was the game that many players sought out as their primary goal in learning pool in general. Most books written on pool instruction in the 1960s centered on 14.1.

I think the regional differences then (and now) are also interesting. For example, the popularity of 8 ball in certain areas compared to 14.1 (or nine ball today).

 

[MattPoland]

Agree for the most part, however; 1961 to around 1969 still saw mostly Balsis, Crane, Lassiter, Murphy, dominating 14.1 and I remember , at least until the later 1960s that 14.1 was the game that many players sought out as their primary goal in learning pool in general. Most books written on pool instruction in the 1960s centered on 14.1.

I agree. I had the Hustler Era going too long. The revitalization of 14.1 from the movie really doesn't go all the way into the 1980s. I missed the significant transitional period from 14.1 to 9-ball. I'm really having trouble labeling that time period. I've considered calling it the "9-ball era", "Transitional Era", "Crackdown Era" (raiding of Johnston City), etc.

I could call it the "Second Decline", with 1996-2005 being the "Third Decline" and some how break the tail end of the Golden Era into the "First Decline". I do think my Golden Era is too big.

Pool Eras

How would label the different eras of pool and what timeframes would you put on them? I usually think of them either by who is dominant or by who is producing events. Golden era? Johnston City era? Hustler era? ESPN era? Color of Money era? AccuStats era? Decline era? Matchroom era? I...

forums.azbilliards.com

 

[garczar]

How 'bout the 'Chemical Warfare' era??

 

[FranCrimi]

Wow, there are a million ways to go here, but I'll take a shot:

Birth and vitalization of straight pool: 1920-1944
Golden age of straight pool: 1945-75
Nine ball and straight pool fight for center stage: 1976-83
Nine ball Era: 1984-present

100% Agree!

 

[sjm]

100% Agree!

Thanks, Fran. Nice to have the rubber stamp from one who has seen pool transition from era to era up close.

 

[JAM]

Keep in mind this isn’t a “Who’s the Best” thread at all. It’s a labeling of pool eras thread. The movie “The Hustler” came out in 1961 and spurred a revitalization of the pool in the years that followed. I did not label that era “The Hustler Era” because it was defined by road dogs hustling across America (even though that certainly was occurring in that and other eras). I labeled it due to the revitalization of pool from the movie. I do welcome other thoughts on labels and time periods.

The players listed are not meant to be who is the best of that era. They are merely meant to be a sampling of players that were winning notable titles during that time. For modern eras I sampled players that were winning US Opens, Derby and making Mosconi Cup appearances. For older eras I would look at the BCA Hall of Fame and look at their Wikipedia pages for sections like “Titles and Achievements” and take note which decades most of their titles were in. As such in noticed there were some players that spanned eras since I’m artificially punctuating a continuum and some players had notable longevity. I also noticed there were cohorts of players that were commonly identified together. But overall listing them was just to give a flavor of the era only. I do welcome feedback on what sampling of players help define a era in the event an era is not being portrayed effectively. But again I don’t want to try to be comprehensive. If I have 5 names, I’m happy.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. BCA, tin cups, Wikipedia, and titles don't cover American pool in some eras—in my opinion, of course. If you think Keith McCready had nothing to do with the "Color of Money" era, that is fine. We can each have our opinions on what is noteworthy to remember. I will add that I grew up in this era so I have a little bit of knowledge to share.

Rather than take insinuating insults from other contributors on this thread directed at me and/or Keith (not you, Matt), I will bow out of the discussion. And you all can discuss it among yourselves and decide who to include in the era labels.

 

[Island Drive]

60's....Midwest/Brunswick Bowling & Billiards....pool room called Bensingers in Downtown Chicago. The 60's ACIU collegiate Championship 14.1 events were happening men/women, with Varner beating Carella in the finals 68 or 69. Few if any, women turned out to be roadies, bar table players. Rudolph Wanderone/AKA Minnesota Fats was in those early yrs of the late 60's. But a gal I met, does bet high, I can picture her but name slips me, she wore short hair. Also,,,,, Mr Bigtime John McChesney/Texas Express ran a bar table 9 ball tour, selling guns at his gigs, with shades of Ronnie Allen, and Cornbread Red showing up in at a McChesney Olathe event, Shooters, Dan Tulls place.

Also, during the 80's and Red Whalens REDS daze in TX the game was a ''howlin'' then Efren showed up, but Buddy gobbled em up, after Effie was worn.... Then all those crazy, different, pool player minded pro tours that came and went, and it's moments. PCA, Camel, Trudeau, Don Mackey, etc. Yet, Zuglan and Fleming stood the course.

 

[Taxi]

I think another era is getting a toehold
The one pocket era
It’s had the most money bet for the last 50 years

When I started playing in the mid-60's in the DC area, the only two games anyone gambled on, at least on 9 ft. tables, were 9 ball and one pocket. Straight pool and 8 ball were completely off the radar. For whatever reason, the best local 9 ball players (like Gumphrey) were usually White, while the best local one pocket players (like Strawberry) were more often Black.

And the most serious money before Jack 'n' Jill arrived in 1968 was usually bet on one pocket. The most notorious drug dealer in Washington, Lawrence "Slippery" Jackson, once dropped $100,000 in cash in a one pocket match at the old Guys and Dolls, and then later returned and won back $30,000 of it.

 

[Taxi]

How 'bout the 'Chemical Warfare' era??

AKA the 'Tune-Up' era. "I'm taking a break, gotta go out to my car for a tune-up."

 

[MattPoland]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. BCA, tin cups, Wikipedia, and titles don't cover American pool in some eras—in my opinion, of course. If you think Keith McCready had nothing to do with the "Color of Money" era, that is fine. We can each have our opinions on what is noteworthy to remember. I will add that I grew up in this era so I have a little bit of knowledge to share.

Rather than take insinuating insults from other contributors on this thread directed at me and/or Keith (not you, Matt), I will bow out of the discussion. And you all can discuss it among yourselves and decide who to include in the era labels.

I respect that. Just to echo my thoughts. This isn't really a "who's who" of pool, it's a "when's when". The naming of players is just to be illustrative of the era and not intended to be comprehensive. I'm sure I'm leaving many off. But the heart of what players I sampled was driven by titles. I do respect your contribution that titles alone don't necessarily capture the zeitgeist of an era.

 

[MattPoland]

I think you'd get a lot of different answers to this question, but my view is that straight pool was not viewed as a good game for TV. Its pace was too slow, and as a call-shot game, it was harder for onlookers to decipher what the shooter was trying to accomplish on too many shots.

Of course, the one-shot-shootout (aka rollout) version of nine ball could also drag on a bit and was, at times, hard to follow, but it was gradually replaced by Texas Express nine-ball by about 1983 or so, and at that point, nine ball came to be viewed as the best game for TV audiences.

Since starting this thread, the topic of "What happened in the 1970s to start ushering in 9-ball?" has completely consumed me. The sentiment change you mentioned above makes total sense. I just don't know what TV it was on. I associate the Texas Express, PBT, Brunswick, and ESPN with the 1980s. Does any of that (or some other centralized influence) go back to the 1970s? Or was there something more grassroots occurring with promoters, tours, tournaments, etc.? Was it just a languishing era of pool or did it have its own story to it?

 

[JAM]

I respect that. Just to echo my thoughts. This isn't really a "who's who" of pool, it's a "when's when". The naming of players is just to be illustrative of the era and not intended to be comprehensive. I'm sure I'm leaving many off. But the heart of what players I sampled was driven by titles. I do respect your contribution that titles alone don't necessarily capture the zeitgeist of an era.

You write pretty good and have a way with words for a young'n.

I respect your thoughts too.

 

[FranCrimi]

Thanks, Fran. Nice to have the rubber stamp from one who has seen pool transition from era to era up close.

Maybe it's because we're both East-Coasters and lived through the great age of 14.1 that we think alike. I recall in '76 at the ACUI Nationals in Milwaukee, my roommate was from California, and she was talking about this game where they only use 9 balls and they play them in rotation. I remember saying to her that I doubt I'd ever play that kind of game. Then suddenly, there it was at the Q in NY one day shortly after. Flatlands Freddie was playing someone from out of town and the crowd was gathered around, side-betting. I thought, that must be that game my roommate was talking about. So I can back you up completely about 1976 being the start of the 9 ball - 14.1 fighting for center stage.