Fargo question- could be a dumb one…
- Thread starter Nick8400
- Start date
Well with a table home I worked in straight pool for a summer ( bored of practicing other things alone). Had certainly played it before. Brushed up on strategy ect, some Grady videos ect.
Played John Smith style, run til I miss and start over. Beat 100 5 times, 2nd highest was 142.
The 168 is 12 racks...I jawed the break ball on rack 13.
Big advantage running on your own equipment, but you have to do the work. That was on my anniversary with diamond spec pockets with black diamond rails.
I broke and ran 7 racks of 9 ball on an old GC1, nearly 5 inch corners...playing an old timer race to 7 for $10. I ran out from the coin toss. What a waste of talent...for $10.
I played my buddy 8 ball race to 4 on valley barbox for $50 a set. He beat me 1st set. Then I ran 3 sets , won all 3 coin tosses for break. He quit after I'd run the 12 racks...down $100. Running 12 racks of 8 ball on a valley isn't nearly as impressive to me as the other feats. When you only play big table rotation games and play well...packages in barbox 8 ball happen. Usually guys don't play long enough to see them.
I don't lie about pool and what I've done. No need to. I played many great players for money and if I hold my own it's an accomplishment. So many guys never get out and see what they can do under pressure.
Fargo isn't capturing alot of players. I know a dozen shortstop players who don't play in anything that would be recorded.
Last edited:
Like I say if you play good...who's to know what your high run is unless you are playing high run straight pool?
Before that summer...In matches or straight pool leagues I'd run 30 or so, but we really don't play much straight pool.
I'm looking forward to not playing or practicing....being one of those guys who can pick up a cue off the wall after 2 years and beat people. Time will tell.
That said I'll play McDaniel with the above spot from a wheelchair...cuz he's got me for life now.
Sounds like you have his number. Like an online version of talking to himself. That's where I'm at, 30's-40's if I'm lucky. Every once in a while a 50-60. I get too aggressive on secondary breaks and play the wrong shot too often. I'll video it and look at the shots I would play vs. what actually happens, it's like two different people. A person really does have to dedicate time to just straight pool.
You should be about that speed already, strong A player is the dream. A-B speed without too much playing time. Good enough to win, but not so strong nobody wants to play!
The better you play
The more weight you give
The less people will play you
Gone are the days of playing people just to see how you match up.
This reminds me of a story.
In Chico CA mid '90s. We managed The Thunderbird Lodge, which was walking distance to the downtown pool room that made all road players little black book.
Charles was the player and would gamble to a couple thousand. The owner however would back him to $10,000 if they liked the action.
Mike Danner came to town with a player, John Smith (no really). We comped them a room and I gave Mike the low down on Charles. How Charles usually gambled 9-ball and how he thought one-pocket was his secret game. I told him on Sunday morning Charles would be on his table practicing and I would be there on another as usual. Don't be seen talking to me and good hunting.
John Smith didn't have an ounce of hustle. He comes in and heads straight to Charles. Mike came in shortly after and sits at the bar. Charles negotiations leads to $10 one pocket.
I then sat at the round table near the pool table I was renting and watched.....A display of some of the best one pocket I have ever seen. I have seen a lot. He demolished Charles 10 games straight. The owner had arrived in time to see the last 5. So they made a tidy $100.
Once it was obvious, Mike came to the table I was sitting at and was ready to pull out what hair he had. His comment was along the lines of, "Might as well head to The Hardtimes, throw open the doors and holler, "anyone want to gamble!"
YeahThis reminds me of a story.
In Chico CA mid '90s. We managed The Thunderbird Lodge, which was walking distance to the downtown pool room that made all road players little black book.
Charles was the player and would gamble to a couple thousand. The owner however would back him to $10,000 if they liked the action.
Mike Danner came to town with a player, John Smith (no really). We comped them a room and I gave Mike the low down on Charles. How Charles usually gambled 9-ball and how he thought one-pocket was his secret game. I told him on Sunday morning Charles would be on his table practicing and I would be there on another as usual. Don't be seen talking to me and good hunting.
John Smith didn't have an ounce of hustle. He comes in and heads straight to Charles. Mike came in shortly after and sits at the bar. Charles negotiations leads to $10 one pocket.
I then sat at the round table near the pool table I was renting and watched.....A display of some of the best one pocket I have ever seen. I have seen a lot. He demolished Charles 10 games straight. The owner had arrived in time to see the last 5. So they made a tidy $100.
Once it was obvious, Mike came to the table I was sitting at and was ready to pull out what hair he had. His comment was along the lines of, "Might as well head to The Hardtimes, throw open the doors and holler, "anyone want to gamble!"
Stupid to kill your own action with talent like that.
I have very little faith in Fargo and here’s just one example why.
I know 2 guys both are over 600 so they aren’t bangers. Both have a very well established rating with lots of games in the robustness department. One guy is rated about 20 points higher than the other guy. However the guy with the higher rating has absolutely no chance of ever beating the guy that he is rated 20 points higher than I’d say the guy with the lower rating would win 18 sets out of 20 playing a race to 7. It’s not even close that’s the thing. There’s plenty of examples like this that I can think of just with the players I know in my area and that’s small compared to the whole country
I know 2 guys both are over 600 so they aren’t bangers. Both have a very well established rating with lots of games in the robustness department. One guy is rated about 20 points higher than the other guy. However the guy with the higher rating has absolutely no chance of ever beating the guy that he is rated 20 points higher than I’d say the guy with the lower rating would win 18 sets out of 20 playing a race to 7. It’s not even close that’s the thing. There’s plenty of examples like this that I can think of just with the players I know in my area and that’s small compared to the whole country
I'm a health care provider in cancer care. There's statistics and there's randomized controlled clinical trials, so stringent the results get FDA approval based on their being reproducible and overwhelmingly significant. I've taken statistics and biostatistics, as well as most math they teach except business.
The lack of reliability for Fargo is undeniable for players under 700...if they don't play big events where Fargo data is obtained, you aren't capturing their true ability.
As Mark Twain wrote:
“There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics"
S
If that's true, the guy you like could give the player with the higher rating 3 on the wire in a race to 7 and still be stealing. You should back him in that game.
I don’t gamble at pool anymore I play because I enjoy playing. I also enjoy watching all skill levels play in tournaments or in money matches but if I’ve got money to spend I’ll just buy me a steak dinner.
Another example a guy I’ve play with for 30 years is rated 60 points higher than me. To make it real hard for me to win I would have to give him the 7. He can’t win with the 8 and he knows it. However we both do have low robustness.
I think there are a lot of reasons why one player with a higher rating may lose to someone a bit lower. 20 points isn’t that much in the great scheme of things. I’d be more curious which of those two players has a better overall tournament record. By comparison, I believe I’ve heard Ralf Souquet has a winning record over Efren, but I think most agree that Efren was the better player.
Ralf is a bad mama jama
What I know is Fargo is City in ND, cross border from Moorhead, MN.
Both places are cold, gloomy, but do get 1day a year sunlight.
Both places are cold, gloomy, but do get 1day a year sunlight.
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
Earl said the guy he had the most trouble with was Bustamante. Some players just have your number. I wouldn't think it would be a big deal in 9 ball but in one pocket I can definitely how one person might be able to exploit the other's weakness. At the pro level, I don't think any of those guys have weaknesses, just strengths and stronger strengths.
Context will certainly affect some people's FR. A player that consistently competes in tough tournaments will have a more accurate rating than someone that plays in a loosey- goosey BCAPL league. Personally, I think I could beat a really bad player at 8 ball, say -- 20 racks in a row if my life depended on it. But play that same player in a league where their team is way over matched , and soon you find yourself playing more "friendly".
For many, league pool is just about getting their weeks in to qualify for tourneys. This data will not be as accurate.
For many, league pool is just about getting their weeks in to qualify for tourneys. This data will not be as accurate.
Archer said the same to me once. Busty was the hardest to beat.
Ask me, they are all hard to beat!
Nest
Fatboy <——-stays in his lane
Woodshaft
Do what works for YOU!
This is correct. I've seen it in my region too.
I personally take an "established" fargorate with an error of plus or minus 40 points or so because of this.
That's a 80% range btw.
I know Mike Page swears by it, but the amount of variables (different equipment, types of games, etc) used in his win/loss computations makes it a ruff guess at best.
It's about as accurate as APA SL's 1 thru 6 in 8-ball, or SL 1 thru 9's in 9-ball, for example.
Fargorate isn't the omg spot on rating system many think it is. It's just ANOTHER system providing a ball-park guess, invented to promote BCA sanctioned events.
It's biggest flaw imo btw is it's inability to keep up with a player's sudden improvement.