I think Alex has faded a bit in 9ball. But IMO Alex has been the best all around player in the world since about 2015-16. I also think Fedor will shortly claim that crown if he hasn't already. As far as SVB, I think his 1p is underated. I've thought he has been top5 or at least top10 in the world in One Pocket for years now.
Player of the decade Earl or Sigel?
- Thread starter Raph Cleary
- Start date
I
I left out Harold Worst, another player who is difficult to evaluate due to the brevity of his career at pocket billiards, but who I think always deserves to be mentioned in discussions of the greatest all-around American players ever, despite the brevity of his career.
So much to consider. Burst speed, rms speed, water cooled, helium cooled, price...
I agree with everything you said. That’s my observation as well.
Best
Fatboy
I’ll add one thing. SVB 1P is going to be on the upswing over the next couple years. I’m very confident in that. It’s super solid now, but will get better.
thenaturalpoolplayer
Active member
Comparing those players to the players of today would be like comparing any athletes of old to today...they simply don't measure up.
Mike's not far above Nick. Mike was just a bit above him in the two major disciplines back then, 14.1 and nine-ball. Nick was probably better at each of one-pocket and banks. Eight ball was about even. Lassiter is the only other American in the conversation for greatest all-around player.
Relative to his peers, Shane was below Mike, Nick and Lassiter. In this era, I think I'd put Pagulayan and maybe even Orcullo above Shane, but Shane is rightly grouped with the greatest ever all-around players.
The most amazing thing about Mike is that he was one of the two best players (along with Mizerak) when the straight pool era ended and remained one of the three best players (along with Hall and Strickland) when the nine-ball era replaced the straight pool era.
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Pretty much how I see it, although I'd say they were equals in eight ball. I give Mike the nod as an all-around player because nine-ball and straight pool were pool's primary disciplines in the 1980's, with banks and one-pocket not as important.
Still, if one weights all the disciplines equally, the choice between Mike and Nick is awfully close.
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Raph Cleary
Active member
This poll is pretty close!
Raph Cleary
Active member
Don't think that Mike couldn't play One Pocket or Banks at the highest level as well. I saw him play guys like Tony Fargo and Truman Hogue dead even at Banks and hold his own, and his record against Nick at One Pocket is a winning one. Mike was right there with Miz and Hopkins in One Pocket! I would make it a toss up between Mike and Nick at those two games as well. They were probably the two best All Around players of their era, neither of them had any weaknesses at any game! Maybe that's why they became such close friends.
Hey Jay who out of all the best players of any era held their speed the best under high pressure tournament play or high stakes gambling?
Tough question to answer but take your best shot.
Who would you stake for $100,000 of your own money?
Open for others to answer if you have seen enough players to form an opinion?
I've always heard that Hopkins held his speed better than anyone,but that's just second hand info from his one time high stakes backer.
Tough question to answer but take your best shot.
Who would you stake for $100,000 of your own money?
Open for others to answer if you have seen enough players to form an opinion?
I've always heard that Hopkins held his speed better than anyone,but that's just second hand info from his one time high stakes backer.
Thanks Jay, I didn't know that and went by reputation alone on one-pocket. I never saw Mike play Nick at that game. Never too old to learn!
Ronnie Allen in One Pocket for sure. I bet on him many times, even when it looked like he had the worst of it, and still won pretty much every time. Ronnie's famous quote that I loved was, "You make the biggest scores when you give up the nuts!" And he did, or at least his opponents thought so. After Ronnie, Keith was a good bet at 9-Ball. Many people don't know that when Efren first came to this country, he landed in Los Angeles before going to Texas. He ran into Keith at the Orange County Sports Arena and Keith gave him the eight ball playing 9-Ball, as was his custom for all strangers, especially Hispanic ones (which he thought Efren was). Keith put a whipping on him that Efren never forgot.
Other very good bets included Billy Incardona who seemed to book all winners. He gave a very strong playing Bucktooth (when Tooth was much younger) the six ball for 300 a game back in the early 1970's in Vegas. I thought Tooth had the nuts and bet 20 a game on him. After I was stuck 100, I switched over to Billy and ended up 200 winners. One other relatively unknown player back then was Jack Perkins. I never saw him lose a money game. People under-rated his game and he could really play, maybe only a ball below the champions. Any time I saw him in action I automatically got a bet down. I saw some great players (Cole and Jimmy Reid among others) try to give him the seven ball and they didn't like it.
The only guy I would ever bet all my money on was Harold Worst. He just wouldn't let anyone beat him at any game. If he needed to raise his level he would do it. EVERYONE (tournament or money player) feared Worst back then for about three years (1964-67). He was the best player and we all knew it!
In 86 and 87 Johnny was making a name for himself as one of the top two players in Georgia. In 1988 to 89 I think he unseated Paul Turner for being known as the best player in Georgia. It was around that time I heard a local player predict Johnny would be World Champion one day. He was right.Where’s Johnny?
I’ll ask him. Chester was in the picture when he was very young. They knew very soon when he was 15 something special was going on.
Efren has more titles?Efren does have more titles than pretty much any other player though, thus the more titles the better player.
List of Efren Reyes championships - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Also if it was based on fear Efren would have won player of the decade in the 90s, without a doubt.
We need a running count.
Iirc, Efren started winning titles in '94.
If you include Billiards, Worst maybe the best period.
The December 1991 issue of Billiards Digest contained this article in which the pros were polled on who they considered to be the best. At this time, Sigel had already backed off from competing as often as he had in the past but was still right behind Varner in nine ball and number one in straight pool. I think Earl had an off year (for him) but was still highly regarded in nine ball. It's a little unfair to Earl as he was a nine ball monster and didn't play the other games.
