BCA Hall of Fame discussion

Who do you think?

  • David Howard

    Votes: 6 16.2%
  • Jimmy Mataya

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Jimmy Reid

    Votes: 3 8.1%
  • Keith MCcready

    Votes: 8 21.6%
  • Jack Breit

    Votes: 4 10.8%
  • Mieko Harada

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • John Fitzpatrick

    Votes: 1 2.7%
  • CJ Wiley

    Votes: 2 5.4%
  • Grady Mathews

    Votes: 12 32.4%
  • Wade Crane

    Votes: 1 2.7%

  • Total voters
    37
sjm, how do you think brief periods of complete dominance factor into Hall of Fame consideration?

Let's say Sanchez-Ruiz regresses back to his pre-2021 self and never wins another major and instead just wins a few European events here and there for the rest of his career.

Does his 2022/2023 resume (DCC 9 Ball, WCOP, U.S. Open, World 8 Ball, and World 9 Ball) make him a HoFer regardless of what happens during the rest of his career?

Or is it better for a player to have more sustained "staying power" at the top of the game, even if they ultimately have fewer major titles than someone who caught lightning in a bottle for a few years and then faded?
In general, a player who dominates for a short period but then fades away
deserves consideration, but the Hall of Fame, more than anything, should focus on sustained excellence, at least in the opinion of this pool fan.

The player inducted three months ago is one that had a great year every year. Yes, he never won a US Open 9-ball or a World 9-ball Championship, but he was a prolific winner in competition. Dennis Orcullo, to me, is a quintessential BCA Hall of Famer, as year after year he was counted among the game's greats.

I'll take sustained excellence over short-term dominance. That said, I think Sanchez-Ruiz will prove to be a player that can stay among the world's best for years to come.

PS I couldn't think of a player who dominated and then fell off pro pool's map. Did you have anyone in mind?
 
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While I have seen them all play & all area great players with exceptional ability. I think they are all “close” to HOF players, but none of them are HOF players. At most they are part of the conversation, but it ends there.

Ed Kelly, Mike, Earl, Daz, Rodney all at different ages 80’s down to 40’s are HOF players.

The guys in this pole did lots for pool, but didn’t win the big ones or add enough to pool to be HOF, not a knock-they are great. But not HOF great.

Fatboy<——certainly not HOF,
Their in their own HOF, All with pool know their names... Guy
 
To me an active player that fits this kind of criteria is Chang. I figure he’s a player that will be in eventually and just needs to wait his turn. Not necessarily from the archives. Not a Albin level of obviousness but just enough to be clearly across the line.
 
sjm, how do you think brief periods of complete dominance factor into Hall of Fame consideration?

Let's say Sanchez-Ruiz regresses back to his pre-2021 self and never wins another major and instead just wins a few European events here and there for the rest of his career.

Does his 2022/2023 resume (DCC 9 Ball, WCOP, U.S. Open, World 8 Ball, and World 9 Ball) make him a HoFer regardless of what happens during the rest of his career?

Or is it better for a player to have more sustained "staying power" at the top of the game, even if they ultimately have fewer major titles than someone who caught lightning in a bottle for a few years and then faded?

If FSR died tomorrow then he’d easily match the merit of Harold Worst.
 
For me David Howard is a no brainer....Having said that and will say it again

MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!
 
For me David Howard is a no brainer....Having said that and will say it again

MARK GRIFFIN!

Seems like the obvious pick for 2024. I know who I want to see in for meritorious service but I fear he’ll need to retire before he’ll let it happen.
 
For me David Howard is a no brainer....Having said that and will say it again

MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!MARK GRIFFIN!
Yes, except this thread is about whether the indicated players qualify on the basis of their competitive accomplishments. This thread is not about who might qualify on the basis of meritorious service in the future, so Mark Griffin is not relevant.

David Howard is not anything close to obvious, as he has been eligible for about twenty years and has not gained entry.
 
My vote would be for Jersey Red
More a one-pocket hall of fame type. A solid competitor best known for his accomplishments in action and his solid all-around skills. I saw him play on many occasions, but mostly when he was a little past his prime.

Red was a frequent road partner of John Ervolino, who was, more or less, his equal as an all-around player. Red played his best pool in about 1965-67 but was never in the conversation with Irving Crane, Luther Lassiter, Harold Worst, Joe Balsis, Jimmy Moore or Cisero Murphy, all of whom were a level above him.

He had his moments for sure and was an entertaining player to watch.
 
More a one-pocket hall of fame type. A solid competitor best known for his accomplishments in action and his solid all-around skills. I saw him play on many occasions, but mostly when he was a little past his prime.

yep, he was one of the first into the 1pkt HoF. a list that by the way badly needs to have bustie and alex in there. i'm sure they'll be inducted at some point
 
Interesting thread. Well, I guess as Keith McCready's other half, I will weigh in on this poll and the subject matter at hand.

First, Keith and I both are so very grateful to Steve Booth for having a category that fit Keith to a tee in the One Pocket Hall of Fame, which is the Lifetime of Pool in Action award. If anybody is deserving of this category, it is Keith McCready.

Keith has never been a tournament soldier as are most, if not all, of the other BCA Hall of Fame pool players. The tournament venues for Keith most times were a gathering place. He was more in tune with the after-hours activities than the tournament itself. That was his bailiwick. When he was competing in a tournament, he was known for comedically interacting with the audience during his matches. The more involved the audience was, the better Keith would play. But make no mistake about it, no one in the tournament wanted to draw Keith's name on the charts because one didn't know which Keith would show up for the match, the Keith that wants to entertain the railbirds with his gift of gab and could run six-packs or the Keith who had been up all night gambling and had no sleep.

There are two kinds of pool people in our pool world, the pool purists and the action enthusiasts. Keith's style of play does not fall into the category of pool purists, which I think the majority of BCA Hall of Fame contenders do fall into. Keith was not liked by pool purists because of his antics and his lifestyle, which has been compared to poker star Stu Unger, yet when there was a big tournament, even the pool players themselves would come to watch Keith compete because he was fun to watch. At the 2003 U.S. Open, Efren Reyes and Francisco Bustamante's match on the live stream table had to stop because everyone in the audience was watching Keith v. Alex Pagulayan on a side table, even Efren and Bustie. Nobody knows what's going to fly out of his mouth, which makes him entertaining. Unlike Stu Unger, Keith survived his early years, thank goodness, and I know he would not be alive today if we had not met.

One of Keith's largest contributions to pool, as most know, was his role as Grady Seasons in "The Color of Money." To this day, even in 2023, he still gets asked to repeat his famous line, "It's like a nightmare, isn't it?" It was the perfect role for a pool player of Keith's ilk to play, and he did it to a tee, even ad-libbing a few lines which were kept in the movie by Martin Scorsese.

I could add a lot more to The Keith McCready Story, but I'll end it here to say Keith most definitely contributed to the legacy American pool in its golden years. His legacy is more akin to the style of Minnesota Fats. Today is a new era in pool, of course, and we'll see where Matchroom, Predator, and CSI take it. It won't be robotic tournament soldiers playing mum pool, and it won't be the road warriors and action players. I do look forward to see where it goes and hope I'm still alive to watch it grow.

If you all have read my post up to this point, I'd like to nominate Jeremy Jones to the list. He's, I think, 51 years old today. I'm not sure what the BCA Hall of Fame qualifications are, but if age is not a requirement, Jeremy would be a great candidate for consideration to the BCA's Hall of Fame.

McCready Jones Hall of Fame.jpg
 
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Interesting thread. Well, I guess as Keith McCready's other half, I will weigh in on this poll and the subject matter at hand.

First, Keith and I both are so very grateful to Steve Booth for having a category that fit Keith to a tee in the One Pocket Hall of Fame, which is the Lifetime of Pool in Action award. If anybody is deserving of this category, it is Keith McCready.

Keith has never been a tournament soldier as are most, if not all, of the other BCA Hall of Fame pool players. The tournament venues for Keith most times were a gathering place. He was more in tune with the after-hours activities than the tournament itself. That was his bailiwick. When he was competing in a tournament, he was known for comedically interacting with the audience during his matches. The more involved the audience was, the better Keith would play. But make no mistake about it, no one in the tournament wanted to draw Keith's name on the charts because one didn't know which Keith would show up for the match, the Keith that wants to entertain the railbirds with his gift of gab and could run six-packs or the Keith who had been up all night gambling and had no sleep.

There are two kinds of pool people in our pool world, the pool purists and the action enthusiasts. Keith's style of play does not fall into the category of pool purists, which I think the majority of BCA Hall of Fame contenders do fall into. Keith was not liked by pool purists because of his antics and his lifestyle, which has been compared to poker star Stu Unger, yet when there was a big tournament, even the pool players themselves would come to watch Keith compete because he was fun to watch. At the 2003 U.S. Open, Efren Reyes and Francisco Bustamante's match on the live stream table had to stop because everyone in the audience was watching Keith v. Alex Pagulayan on a side table, even Efren and Bustie. Nobody knows what's going to fly out of his mouth, which makes him entertaining. Unlike Stu Unger, Keith survived his early years, thank goodness, and I know he would not be alive today if we had not met.

One of Keith's largest contributions to pool, as most know, was his role as Grady Seasons in "The Color of Money." To this day, even in 2023, he still gets asked to repeat his famous line, "It's like a nightmare, isn't it?" It was the perfect role for a pool player of Keith's ilk to play, and he did it to a tee, even ad-libbing a few lines which were kept in the movie by Martin Scorsese.

I could add a lot more to The Keith McCready Story, but I'll end it here to say Keith most definitely contributed to the legacy American pool in its golden years. His legacy is more akin to the style of Minnesota Fats. Today is a new era in pool, of course, and we'll see where Matchroom, Predator, and CSI take it. It won't be robotic tournament soldiers playing mum pool, and it won't be the road warriors and action players. I do look forward to see where it goes and hope I'm still alive to watch it grow.

If you all have read my post up to this point, I'd like to nominate Jeremy Jones to the list. He's, I think, 51 years old today. I'm not sure what the BCA Hall of Fame qualifications are, but if age is not a requirement, Jeremy would be a great candidate for consideration to the BCA's Hall of Fame.

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Great stuff, Jennie!

FYI - Jeremy has been (and still is) on the nomination list for Greatest Players every year for the past several years.
 
Here are some other names to think about. Many sill get dismissed from the simple facts that they were more road warriors than tournament players, and/or the poster just didn't see them play.

Pittsburgh Billy Cardone
The Professor Grady Matthews
Billy “Wade Crane” Johnson
St Louie Louie Roberts
Oil Can Larry Lisciotti - The Prince of Pool
CJ Wiley

Grady is an interesting one as I nominate him for everything. But he’s known by some voters more as meritorious and others more as a player, with neither category getting him enough support.

Crane, Roberts and Lisciotti have all won “major” events, and Crane has shot a 1.000 in the finals of an event. But they all had short splashes in tourney play, and went back in the back rooms as their norm.


CJ was the only person I saw in the 80’s that could compete with Earl’s firepower and intimidating offense. And for a short time, he was doing everything for pool. But, too short of a tournament career, as he stayed away from tournaments prior to bursting on the scene, and he slipped back in the shadows for a long time before the internet grew legs.
 
Red took JJ under wing in the 80's 90's, similar to Hueber Cokes aka Daddy Warbucks, taking Varner under wing.
But of all.... King James.... Jimmy REMPE should be next.
I guess I didnt realize what you were saying, but Jim Rempe has been in the Hall of Fame for over two decades!
 
Interesting thread. Well, I guess as Keith McCready's other half, I will weigh in on this poll and the subject matter at hand.

First, Keith and I both are so very grateful to Steve Booth for having a category that fit Keith to a tee in the One Pocket Hall of Fame, which is the Lifetime of Pool in Action award. If anybody is deserving of this category, it is Keith McCready.

Keith has never been a tournament soldier as are most, if not all, of the other BCA Hall of Fame pool players. The tournament venues for Keith most times were a gathering place. He was more in tune with the after-hours activities than the tournament itself. That was his bailiwick. When he was competing in a tournament, he was known for comedically interacting with the audience during his matches. The more involved the audience was, the better Keith would play. But make no mistake about it, no one in the tournament wanted to draw Keith's name on the charts because one didn't know which Keith would show up for the match, the Keith that wants to entertain the railbirds with his gift of gab and could run six-packs or the Keith who had been up all night gambling and had no sleep.

There are two kinds of pool people in our pool world, the pool purists and the action enthusiasts. Keith's style of play does not fall into the category of pool purists, which I think the majority of BCA Hall of Fame contenders do fall into. Keith was not liked by pool purists because of his antics and his lifestyle, which has been compared to poker star Stu Unger, yet when there was a big tournament, even the pool players themselves would come to watch Keith compete because he was fun to watch. At the 2003 U.S. Open, Efren Reyes and Francisco Bustamante's match on the live stream table had to stop because everyone in the audience was watching Keith v. Alex Pagulayan on a side table, even Efren and Bustie. Nobody knows what's going to fly out of his mouth, which makes him entertaining. Unlike Stu Unger, Keith survived his early years, thank goodness, and I know he would not be alive today if we had not met.

One of Keith's largest contributions to pool, as most know, was his role as Grady Seasons in "The Color of Money." To this day, even in 2023, he still gets asked to repeat his famous line, "It's like a nightmare, isn't it?" It was the perfect role for a pool player of Keith's ilk to play, and he did it to a tee, even ad-libbing a few lines which were kept in the movie by Martin Scorsese.

I could add a lot more to The Keith McCready Story, but I'll end it here to say Keith most definitely contributed to the legacy American pool in its golden years. His legacy is more akin to the style of Minnesota Fats. Today is a new era in pool, of course, and we'll see where Matchroom, Predator, and CSI take it. It won't be robotic tournament soldiers playing mum pool, and it won't be the road warriors and action players. I do look forward to see where it goes and hope I'm still alive to watch it grow.

If you all have read my post up to this point, I'd like to nominate Jeremy Jones to the list. He's, I think, 51 years old today. I'm not sure what the BCA Hall of Fame qualifications are, but if age is not a requirement, Jeremy would be a great candidate for consideration to the BCA's Hall of Fame.

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Your post illustrates the problem of assessing the relative merits of the “action oriented” type player such as Keith vs. the more “tournament oriented” type players. Tournament players have well documented results that enable observers to assess their career by looking at their number of tournament titles, number of times they won or lost against particular opponents, quality of fields they played, strength over several years, etc. With the action oriented player, they may have beaten all comers every day for years, but their historical record becomes largely anecdotal. It consists of stories that they beat so-and-so in some obscure venue in the wee hours of the morning and the only record of it, while possibly completely accurate, becomes someone’s memory, often years after the fact. The tournament players are in an inherently better position to get the kind of recognition that factors into the HOF. It’s an unfortunate reality that probably keeps a number of players from getting the recognition they deserve. Best wishes to Keith.
 
Interesting thread. Well, I guess as Keith McCready's other half, I will weigh in on this poll and the subject matter at hand.

First, Keith and I both are so very grateful to Steve Booth for having a category that fit Keith to a tee in the One Pocket Hall of Fame, which is the Lifetime of Pool in Action award. If anybody is deserving of this category, it is Keith McCready.

Keith has never been a tournament soldier as are most, if not all, of the other BCA Hall of Fame pool players. The tournament venues for Keith most times were a gathering place. He was more in tune with the after-hours activities than the tournament itself. That was his bailiwick. When he was competing in a tournament, he was known for comedically interacting with the audience during his matches. The more involved the audience was, the better Keith would play. But make no mistake about it, no one in the tournament wanted to draw Keith's name on the charts because one didn't know which Keith would show up for the match, the Keith that wants to entertain the railbirds with his gift of gab and could run six-packs or the Keith who had been up all night gambling and had no sleep.

There are two kinds of pool people in our pool world, the pool purists and the action enthusiasts. Keith's style of play does not fall into the category of pool purists, which I think the majority of BCA Hall of Fame contenders do fall into. Keith was not liked by pool purists because of his antics and his lifestyle, which has been compared to poker star Stu Unger, yet when there was a big tournament, even the pool players themselves would come to watch Keith compete because he was fun to watch. At the 2003 U.S. Open, Efren Reyes and Francisco Bustamante's match on the live stream table had to stop because everyone in the audience was watching Keith v. Alex Pagulayan on a side table, even Efren and Bustie. Nobody knows what's going to fly out of his mouth, which makes him entertaining. Unlike Stu Unger, Keith survived his early years, thank goodness, and I know he would not be alive today if we had not met.

One of Keith's largest contributions to pool, as most know, was his role as Grady Seasons in "The Color of Money." To this day, even in 2023, he still gets asked to repeat his famous line, "It's like a nightmare, isn't it?" It was the perfect role for a pool player of Keith's ilk to play, and he did it to a tee, even ad-libbing a few lines which were kept in the movie by Martin Scorsese.

I could add a lot more to The Keith McCready Story, but I'll end it here to say Keith most definitely contributed to the legacy American pool in its golden years. His legacy is more akin to the style of Minnesota Fats. Today is a new era in pool, of course, and we'll see where Matchroom, Predator, and CSI take it. It won't be robotic tournament soldiers playing mum pool, and it won't be the road warriors and action players. I do look forward to see where it goes and hope I'm still alive to watch it grow.

If you all have read my post up to this point, I'd like to nominate Jeremy Jones to the list. He's, I think, 51 years old today. I'm not sure what the BCA Hall of Fame qualifications are, but if age is not a requirement, Jeremy would be a great candidate for consideration to the BCA's Hall of Fame.

View attachment 688515
Great post, and yes, props to Steve Booth for creating a vehicle for the recognition of those who did their best work in the action room.

I guess, to state the obvious, action matches don't fall under the BCA umbrella and no records are typically kept with respect to action matches, so the gamblers who didn't also have strong competitive resumes have always tended to fall under the radar.
 
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If I'm a betting man, I'd say Ga Young Kim and Niels Feijen are the next two BCA Hall of Fame inductees.

I'd put Ga Young as the sixth best ever woman player behind Jean Balukas, Allison Fisher, Kelly Fisher, Karen Corr and Ruth McGinnis.

Feijen was probably among the world's ten best players for more than a decade, has a very long list of titles, and he is on the very short list of those who have won a WPA sanctioned World Championship in both 14.1 and 9-ball. The others that come to mind who have accomplished this are Ortmann, Hohmann, Sigel, Varner, and all of them are rightly in the hall of fame.

Niels and Ga Young should be no brainers.
 
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