* Your Pro Pool Clinic with Tom Kennedy, Matt Sherman *

justadub said:
Fairness applies here, tho it is fairness as determined by AZMike. His house, his rules.
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It also involves different moderators with their own views. I posted his rules on here yesterday and they've been broken over and over again for years with no repercussions to those doing it.

Here's the RULE:
OK, apparently this needs to be said again. I do not want to see anyone bashing another aiming system in any way.

If you have a positive experience with an aiming system, then feel free to post it. If you want to discuss the merits of an aiming system, then feel free. But for now, I don't want any comparisons as we all know that will just turn into bashing.

It is amazing to me that we have more reported posts about aiming systems than we do about politics.

This is going to be handled like baseball.

First offense will be a two week vacation.
Second offense will be a month.
Third will be a year.
 
WobblyStroke said:
(...)
As far as charging for lessons, check out the PBIA Master Instructor list.... a lot of 500s on there and a cpl in 400s. The effectiveness of an instructor comes from how much better they can make the student not how much better they can play than the student.
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A Master instructor in the 400's? I thought there were playing standards. Taking lessons from someone in the 400's would be like taking running lessons from someone who couldn't walk and didn't have any physical limitations. At some point, it reaches an absurd level. When a player cannot execute basic shots, it would be difficult to take their technical advice seriously.
SpiderWebComm said:
You're also involved with golf. Just about the entire membership of the PGA Tour has a golf instructor working with them to improve their swing or get them out of some bad habits they developed over time. Name one instructor that can play as good as the player they're instructing or used to play as good when they were younger. I can think of a couple who played on the PGA tour, Butch Harmon (1 year/1 win) and Bob Toski (leading money winner on tour '54 https://www.pgatour.com/player/02208/bob-toski and that's about it. None of the rest.

Stan Shuffett has a current Fargo rating of 725 and gets wasted on THIS forum by a crew that don't even have a Fargo rating or play in any kind of tournaments at any level. He also has the highest rank in the PBIA, Master Instructor. Makes a lot of sense, huh?
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I don't think anyone has stated that instructors need to be world-class players. So no sane person would be unimpressed with what Stan's accomplished on the table.

The point here is to give instructors like Stan -- more credit, not less, while shining some light on the far-fetched claims of other instructors.
 
BasementDweller said:
A Master instructor in the 400's? I thought there were playing standards. Taking lessons from someone in the 400's would be like taking running lessons from someone who couldn't walk and didn't have any physical limitations. At some point, it reaches an absurd level. When a player cannot execute basic shots, it would be difficult to take their technical advice seriously.

I don't think anyone has stated that instructors need to be world-class players. So no sane person would be unimpressed with what Stan's accomplished on the table.

The point here is to give instructors like Stan -- more credit, not less, while shining some light on the far-fetched claims of other instructors.
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Nonsense, again.

I've posted an 825-word article here--this thread--today, "shedding light" on my teaching and you refuse to READ it as you've posted above. Because why, your eyes will fall out of your head? You'll melt like the Ark of the Covenant has been opened before you? Of course not--you'll have to actually answer my questions, or debate me about what I've posted.

You lack the class to even post your garbage on another recent thread, "What to seek in an instructor." This is my OP for my teaching clinic!

"The point here is to give instructors like Stan -- more credit, not less, while shining some light on the far-fetched claims of other instructors."

The point HERE was for me to answer questions--not lies and accusations--about my teaching clinic. Who have you ever taught to play pool?
 
SpiderWebComm said:
It also involves different moderators with their own views. I posted his rules on here yesterday and they've been broken over and over again for years with no repercussions to those doing it.

Here's the RULE:
OK, apparently this needs to be said again. I do not want to see anyone bashing another aiming system in any way.

If you have a positive experience with an aiming system, then feel free to post it. If you want to discuss the merits of an aiming system, then feel free. But for now, I don't want any comparisons as we all know that will just turn into bashing.

It is amazing to me that we have more reported posts about aiming systems than we do about politics.

This is going to be handled like baseball.

First offense will be a two week vacation.
Second offense will be a month.
Third will be a year.
Click to expand...
I get your point, PJ would be banned for life. Stan is a good teacher who cares, IMHO.
 
BasementDweller said:
A Master instructor in the 400's? I thought there were playing standards. Taking lessons from someone in the 400's would be like taking running lessons from someone who couldn't walk and didn't have any physical limitations. At some point, it reaches an absurd level. When a player cannot execute basic shots, it would be difficult to take their technical advice seriously.

I don't think anyone has stated that instructors need to be world-class players. So no sane person would be unimpressed with what Stan's accomplished on the table.

The point here is to give instructors like Stan -- more credit, not less, while shining some light on the far-fetched claims of other instructors.
Click to expand...
Your last sentence sums it up perfectly because the forum members who lay waste to him and what he's developed claim it to
be FAR-FETCHED. Any idea how hack players with no Fargo rating and NO certified teaching designation can be so all knowing
about what was developed with no knowledge and ability to use it on the table? Does it even make sense?
 
SpiderWebComm said:
It also involves different moderators with their own views. I posted his rules on here yesterday and they've been broken over and over again for years with no repercussions to those doing it.

Here's the RULE:
OK, apparently this needs to be said again. I do not want to see anyone bashing another aiming system in any way.

If you have a positive experience with an aiming system, then feel free to post it. If you want to discuss the merits of an aiming system, then feel free. But for now, I don't want any comparisons as we all know that will just turn into bashing.

It is amazing to me that we have more reported posts about aiming systems than we do about politics.

This is going to be handled like baseball.

First offense will be a two week vacation.
Second offense will be a month.
Third will be a year.
Click to expand...
While I don't know for certain, I expect that the ownership of this site is simply tired of the nonstop chaos that is the Aiming Section, especially anything revolving around CTE. You guys have been at each other virtually nonstop for decades in some cases. (Here and elsewhere) I expect that its simply not worth the aggravation for them any longer.

There are instances here on the Main Forum where those rules get broken regularly, just not to the spectacular extent of the Aiming Forum. The Harriman stuff has gotten rather silly over the years, as one example.

I bet they never figured on having to be a playground monitor when they set up the site initially. It is never ending.

Just my guess as an observer outside of the general conflict.
 
BasementDweller said:
A Master instructor in the 400's? I thought there were playing standards. Taking lessons from someone in the 400's would be like taking running lessons from someone who couldn't walk and didn't have any physical limitations. At some point, it reaches an absurd level. When a player cannot execute basic shots, it would be difficult to take their technical advice seriously.
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Yes, I was taken aback by a 475 on there but who knows what level this person previously played at? Their knowledge can still help many players, even if they for whatever reason cannot play to that level anymore.

Even if they never played above 600, they may be able to help others get there. To get a master level accreditation, I'm sure they have.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Your last sentence sums it up perfectly because the forum members who lay waste to him and what he's developed claim it to
be FAR-FETCHED. Any idea how hack players with no Fargo rating and NO certified teaching designation can be so all knowing
about what was developed with no knowledge and ability to use it on the table? Does it even make sense?
Click to expand...

There are many locations inside and outside of the US with players that never leave the area and are highly proficient at shooting and teaching.


Its comparable to tactical shooting athletes versus live fire scenarios. Some people only experience practice and never the real thing.

Examples of this is the emergence of new pool talent. Some players were on junior tours and some were not.

Past history in junior participation does not limit future ability.
 
WobblyStroke said:
Yes, I was taken aback by a 475 on there but who knows what level this person previously played at? Their knowledge can still help many players, even if they for whatever reason cannot play to that level anymore.

Even if they never played above 600, they may be able to help others get there. To get a master level accreditation, I'm sure they have.
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I guess I'll be flamed until I get a Fargo. :(

I'd be 550 to 600? Some call that "B" some "A"...? I don't know.

If I miss a shot I think I should make in practice, I set it up again and shoot it once or twice until I make it. I don't shoot it 200 times. I don't come into your town looking to clean up Dodge with my cue and take everyone's money. As a matter of fact, I miss the five-ball sometimes when I get overconfident all nine are mine. Pool lessons are paid and I don't have to put up any money. Ha!
 
justadub said:
While I don't know for certain, I expect that the ownership of this site is simply tired of the nonstop chaos that is the Aiming Section, especially anything revolving around CTE. You guys have been at each other virtually nonstop for decades in some cases. (Here and elsewhere) I expect that its simply not worth the aggravation for them any longer.

There are instances here on the Main Forum where those rules get broken regularly, just not to the spectacular extent of the Aiming Forum. The Harriman stuff has gotten rather silly over the years, as one example.

I bet they never figured on having to be a playground monitor when they set up the site initially. It is never ending.

Just my guess as an observer outside of the general conflict.
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What is it with aim? Seriously. It's not personalities on the forum. The only lessons I've given where people freaked were where I showed "secret" aim methods too early in the lesson, before they came to understand I can help with stance, stroke, position play, etc. first.

There is IMH experience a scary amount of APA 6's and below who shoot to different sides of the pocket depending on o.b. position, meaning they don't shoot everything to center pocket. When I show them the center between the points is the optimal point for the base of the ball to pass over they freak (sometimes).

I actually push a ball slowly with my fingers along the rails until they come to understand what part of the pocket to aim for (unless they are cheating the pocket, of course, or throwing balls to one pocket side with TOI CJ-style, of course). Is that an aim system? I think so, "Hey, stop cheating every cut shot you try and start aiming them all to center pocket!" Do people freak out? They sure do.

Aim becomes like magical thinking for players who struggle, one day better with aim, one day worse. Obviously this can come from simply taking different stance positions day-to-day. The mind abhors a vacuum, so tell an aimer their magic is non-magical, they freak (tell a troll anything not in a pool book for the past 100 years, they freak).

I'll throw in a shameless plug for my teaching here (I'm very shameless). I love to tell students "I've not had a bad play session in years" because I adhere to fundamentals and teach them (just like my golf or desktop publishing or vocal music teaching, or whatever). I feel subtle differences between sessions but never play far below my average abilities. If you're not a 600, I'll get you there (though I'm not sure what a 600 Fargo is). I guess there's that.
 
BilliardsAbout said:
I guess I'll be flamed until I get a Fargo. :(

I'd be 550 to 600? Some call that "B" some "A"...? I don't know.

If I miss a shot I think I should make in practice, I set it up again and shoot it once or twice until I make it. I don't shoot it 200 times. I don't come into your town looking to clean up Dodge with my cue and take everyone's money. As a matter of fact, I miss the five-ball sometimes when I get overconfident all nine are mine. Pool lessons are paid and I don't have to put up any money. Ha!
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I'm low 600s (estimated based on performance against guys with known fargos as my back prevents me from ever getting through a tournament giving me about a 3hr pain-free play limit). Teaching is a separate skill set compared to high level play.

I know bodies, motor skill acquisition, and have a deep knowledge of biomechanics. These make me an effective teacher, but not a better player. I have a great stroke and can do many things on a table far better players than me struggle with. But I have a weak tactical game, ok banking and kicking but nothing special to the level needed for even semi consistent kick safes and therefore often lose to players way less physically skilled at performing a stroke than me but just better at the game.

I've helped much better players than me understand their technique and what makes it tick. But I'd be useless to them in terms of helping them with nuances of the game like pushouts.

I play to a decent level. But as far as teaching movement goes, I'm at a very high level. I don't know the story of the guy with the 475fargo and master level rating but I'm sure there is some reason for his weak current level of play. But I respect the master level designation to a point where I trust he's a much much better teacher than he is a player. They are different skill sets...something very clear when seen in the other direction when some world class players are so weak as teachers they couldn't teach snow how to melt on a summer's day.
 
justnum said:
There are many locations inside and outside of the US with players that never leave the area and are highly proficient at shooting and teaching.
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I agree. But the ones I'm talking about aren't highly proficient at either, other than the confines of their own mind where greatness takes place fueled by ego.
 
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WobblyStroke said:
I'm low 600s (estimated based on performance against guys with known fargos as my back prevents me from ever getting through a tournament giving me about a 3hr pain-free play limit). Teaching is a separate skill set compared to high level play.

I know bodies, motor skill acquisition, and have a deep knowledge of biomechanics. These make me an effective teacher, but not a better player. I have a great stroke and can do many things on a table far better players than me struggle with. But I have a weak tactical game, ok banking and kicking but nothing special to the level needed for even semi consistent kick safes and therefore often lose to players way less physically skilled at performing a stroke than me but just better at the game.

I've helped much better players than me understand their technique and what makes it tick. But I'd be useless to them in terms of helping them with nuances of the game like pushouts.

I play to a decent level. But as far as teaching movement goes, I'm at a very high level. I don't know the story of the guy with the 475fargo and master level rating but I'm sure there is some reason for his weak current level of play. But I respect the master level designation to a point where I trust he's a much much better teacher than he is a player. They are different skill sets...something very clear when seen in the other direction when some world class players are so weak as teachers they couldn't teach snow how to melt on a summer's day.
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The dichotomy of player skill and teacher skill is addressed in the mission statement of the Harriman Cuesports Academy.

The next generation of the pool community will be more savvy than players of yesteryear.

Teaching players the fundamentals of proper cue techniques and proper instructional techniques is what HCA does.
 
An instructor does NOT need to have a great playing record, Fargo Rating, or be a member in the PBIA. As far as I'm concerned, Bert Kinister is one of the most savvy and best instructors out there. There are others.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
An instructor does NOT need to have a great playing record, Fargo Rating, or be a member in the PBIA. As far as I'm concerned, Bert Kinister is one of the most savvy and best instructors out there. There are others.
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Yes Kinister is fantastic. There is always some subjective preference coloring an opinion like this, but he is the best I've seen overall. Not to say I've seen em all. But other than his wealth of solid info, he conveys it in simple ways and some of his phrasing for describing the same things everyone else describes is just more elegant. Great instructor.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
An instructor does NOT need to have a great playing record, Fargo Rating, or be a member in the PBIA. As far as I'm concerned, Bert Kinister is one of the most savvy and best instructors out there. There are others.
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Of course everyone is free to draw the line where they want as far as how good their instructor should play, or could play at some point. I personally wouldn't pay for lessons from anyone under the 600 level (maybe higher) as the game is still too unscientific for my liking. We are quite a ways behind golf in this regard, so many parts of the game and stroke still need to be experienced to fully understand them. Plus there are just too many instructors to pick from that can actually play the game at a high level. So I'll throw in one more plug for The Tin Man as he would be at the top of my list. His focus isn't on fundamentals though.

WobblyStroke's experience and rating makes sense to me, and I think someone that looks at the game with his perspective would make a good instructor.

Considering other instructors, there are several disqualifiers for me. Not being totally honest is one of them. You have to trust your instructor or what's the point?

BA - says he "probably" plays around 600 speed, then later states he doesn't even know what a 600 rating means. 🙄
 
BilliardsAbout said:
(....)
I'll throw in a shameless plug for my teaching here (I'm very shameless). I love to tell students "I've not had a bad play session in years" because I adhere to fundamentals and teach them (just like my golf or desktop publishing or vocal music teaching, or whatever). I feel subtle differences between sessions but never play far below my average abilities. If you're not a 600, I'll get you there (though I'm not sure what a 600 Fargo is). I guess there's that.
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You're a voice teacher too or does "vocal music teaching" mean something else?

Any videos of you singing?
 
BasementDweller said:
You're a voice teacher too or does "vocal music teaching" mean something else?

Any videos of you singing?
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Dude! You were in the thread a week ago, where my James Bond associations were questioned:

Here's the link for the panels I co-chair for Bond in November. My co-chair is the Chair of Florida Atlantic University's English Department, Dr. Oliver Buckton, author and expert: https://samla.memberclicks.net/callsforpapers#englishstudies

Here's the link to the James Bond Studies Conference in London this month, where I'll lead the Walking Tour and host a screening of Casino Royale, I can also provide a brochure with the briefing for my lecture on Ian Fleming/James Bond: https://estore.roehampton.ac.uk/con...dies-conference/james-bond-studies-conference

And you're questioning whether when I say I teach vocal music if I know how to sing? Really?

Really?


. . .


Really?
 
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