Guys I tried this on multiple tables with the same result. There's no English being applied. I finished high in the state tournament I know how to hit a ball with center. I generally test most tables before a match because I use kicking systems. I've played in humid conditions, dry conditions, all over the country on diamond tables. These are nowhere near a typical diamond table
How do these diamond tables play so badly? vid
- Thread starter poolscholar
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As confirmed by the Cobra, who is the person who designed these blue label rails, the table in the video and this tournament are stock tables from the Diamond factory. Not hacked by a sub-par mechanic.
Diamond rails for whatever reason seem to be "more" susceptible to environmental factors than Gold Crown rails, and most other tables. This is both the 7' tables with the Diamond Black cushions, and the 9' tables with Artemis cushions.
That's been my experience since the pool bug hit me hard in the early 1990s. Diamonds "in general" bank shorter and quicker than GC's. But close enough where its not a big deal. Even when both are in the exact same room. I think most people will agree to that. However, when it gets more humid, the Diamonds seem to change more than the GC's. I see way more variation in how diamonds' play in different environments than how GC's play. I think if a GC was under water it would not play like the Diamond in this video.
The worst case I saw of this in person was at the Tunica DCC spinoff tournament in around 2012. The balls were coming off the rails even worse than what is shown in the video in this first post. Everyone was complaining, and I'm talking about the legit pros, not bangers like me. One pro after his match even went up to the tournament desk to complain to the diamond mechanic (I forgot his name, I think it was Scott...) The mechanic went out to the table he just played on and checked it out. Of course, there was nothing wrong with the table. I think he did it just to appease the player. I saw this with my own eyes.
All you guys saying Diamonds rails play great must be playing in cherry conditions. I'm actually quite surprised more people don't post videos like this.
I was actually watching a few minutes of a match with Savanah the Road Runner a few days ago, and the rails on a few shots were bouncing insanely fast. I was thinking to link the shot but it would just have been met with garbage like "she's a kid, doesn't know how to play, she hit the ball wrong, etc."
Diamond rails for whatever reason seem to be "more" susceptible to environmental factors than Gold Crown rails, and most other tables. This is both the 7' tables with the Diamond Black cushions, and the 9' tables with Artemis cushions.
That's been my experience since the pool bug hit me hard in the early 1990s. Diamonds "in general" bank shorter and quicker than GC's. But close enough where its not a big deal. Even when both are in the exact same room. I think most people will agree to that. However, when it gets more humid, the Diamonds seem to change more than the GC's. I see way more variation in how diamonds' play in different environments than how GC's play. I think if a GC was under water it would not play like the Diamond in this video.
The worst case I saw of this in person was at the Tunica DCC spinoff tournament in around 2012. The balls were coming off the rails even worse than what is shown in the video in this first post. Everyone was complaining, and I'm talking about the legit pros, not bangers like me. One pro after his match even went up to the tournament desk to complain to the diamond mechanic (I forgot his name, I think it was Scott...) The mechanic went out to the table he just played on and checked it out. Of course, there was nothing wrong with the table. I think he did it just to appease the player. I saw this with my own eyes.
All you guys saying Diamonds rails play great must be playing in cherry conditions. I'm actually quite surprised more people don't post videos like this.
I was actually watching a few minutes of a match with Savanah the Road Runner a few days ago, and the rails on a few shots were bouncing insanely fast. I was thinking to link the shot but it would just have been met with garbage like "she's a kid, doesn't know how to play, she hit the ball wrong, etc."
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The tables bank short, shorter than other diamonds. The OP is not wrong about this. Read JVs post. Twice if you need to. RKC has given a couple of examples of what could make them bank shorter than normal. The OP stated that all thirty tables were playing like this. It is not the table, it is the conditions. Quit self-flagulating and focus on the original question. What conditions would cause all thirty tables to play like this?
The only people that can confirm that they are unmodified from factory is Bad boys who owns the tables. They do ride around in a truck to tournaments so who knows. Most likely have been recovered. The room for the tournament was pretty cold, not crazy humid. Probably around 70% humidity outside
I specifically said a pool room in South Jersey and a bar in Philly suburbs both have blue and red label 7' tables back to back. If you want to come there and show me the difference, I'd bet it. In Washington state, maybe the environmental conditions are such that there is a noticeable difference in the red and the blue. In these two establishes, there is not.
Yes, I know you can feel the rails with your hand and know which is blue, which is red based on the "hump". I'm only talking about how they play.
The best tables I ever played on were Brunswick Centennials & Anniversaries. I had the privilege to play them during a tourney at Ivory Billiards in Holyoke Mass. These tables were pristine! CB floated on the felt better than a Diamond and banked better than any Gold Crown. I keep trying to get back there, but don't want to go alone. Getting 4-6 peops together in one place at the same time is daunting!
Other possibilities...
Damaged from transport? extreme temperature?
Chinese factory decided to change design or material
Damaged from transport? extreme temperature?
Chinese factory decided to change design or material
R spin would not check off the second rail, even if by chance there was any spin remaining at the speed this was played. First year they changed to Diamonds at BCA they played like this, awful.
There's a different blue label bar table in town and humidity is pretty high now. I'll try to take a video tomorrow
Both places below are nice places to visit and play, and my comments on the tables are absolutely no reflection on the establishments.
The bar in Philly suburbs is called:
Marty Magee's Irish Pub, located at 1110 Lincoln Ave, Prospect Park, PA 19076. They have 3 or 4 total tables, all 7' Diamonds. Some are red, some are blue. I played there 2 or 3 times about 4 years ago. I believe the pool time is free. They had some decent players and I played some $50 sets.
The pool room in South Jersey is called "The Thirsty Hound & South Jersey Billiards". 600 N White Horse Pike. Somerdale, NJ 08083. They have a section on the far side of the room that is separated with a half-height partition from the rest of the room. It has qty 6 7' Diamonds, arranged end to end. I think about half are blue, and half are red in that section. They have a Friday night chip tournament that is a lot of fun. I played there about 10 times in the past few years, but its been about a year since I've been back. I believe the chip tournament used to be on that section of the room, but has since moved to the main section. I can't recall if the main section had all blue, or both blue and red.
Itsa conspiracy I tell ya!
It really is a mystery how bad these play. Do you think Diamond is beyond changing to cheaper materials? I wonder why they don't use artemis on all their tables
That is true only they can confirm with 100% certainty.
I believe, but not certain, that they have a business relationship with Diamond. They go back to the factory every once in a while to pick up new tables, that they then install at tournaments. After the tournaments are over, they are for sale to the public as "tournament used". So as the tables dwindle due to tournament used sales, they get refreshed with brand new ones from Diamond. And the cycle continues. I don't think Bad Boys does any cloth recovering at all.
I may be completely wrong about this! I had talked to the Diamond guys many years ago at one of the DCC's as I was considering buying a table and I may be remembering wrong.
Yet, those tables used the exact same frame, cushion, and bolting system as GC1's, absolutely no different!!
It could very well be that the rail bolts were not properly tightened at the factory. When I received my 8 foot Pro Am two years ago (black diamond rubber) none of the rail bolts were tightened properly at all, I used a torque wrench and did it myself. If this is not done properly, all bets are off as to how the ball will come off the cushion. I just ran multiple tests and the table did not once bank like that.
-dj
Yes. Mark and Steve are rebels .
That mechanic was Paul Smith, as he called me to tell me the balls we hopping off the rails onnthe 10fts, and what could they do about it. I told him, as I've said here many times, the humidity is the cause of the problem. So, Paul took my advice, went and bought a spray bottle of Armor All, sprayed in on a rag, and wiped the nose of the cushions down on ALL the rails!!! Guess what, PROBLEM SOLVED!!!
You people DONT listen worth a shit!!!
John Barton called me about the same problem in his pool room, right after the tables were recovered, TWO and only TWO tables were banking like hell, and of course, right next to the door! John took my advice and guess what, PROBLEM SOLVED!!!