SJM at 2023 Mosconi Cup- Malice at the Palace

jay helfert said:
Welcome back Stu. Your report only underlines what all of us saw and discussed during all four days of the MC, and continued to discuss for days afterwards.

It was a thrashing of the highest order, that spared no one. Even our two big guns were treated to multiple beatdowns. A miserable look for Team usa, a bunch of JV's versus a team of Pros.

Barry Hearn said it best on Day Four. The American players need to take this seriously and get out there and compete internationally against these superior players, or only fall further behind.

Will that happen, it's doubtful. The u.s. team will continue to show up every year and collect their second place paycheck. Hey, it's free money!
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My next sponsorship will be my first, so I am very ignorant of how they are set up, but after laying such an egg, do the sponsors ever apply pressure? Like would Cuetec ever say to Skylar and SVB, Hey fellas, you gotta tighten this up, it is a bad look for the brand!

I know in sports such as NASCAR, sponsors won't tolerate backing a loser for long before they are looking for greener pastures. I just wonder if that type of corporate input is a motivating factor
 
Podunker said:
Justnum
Why don't you invite team USA to your academy? A few days training under you and your crew may help make exceptional changes to the whole Mosconi cup process.
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I posted everything for free. I know I need supporters.

I used to hold office hours in the room and show up during free hours.

And bring people to the rooms.

And go to pro events live in multiple countries.

I am nobody. Advertising matters.
 
skogstokig said:
this is an important point. the polish players are sparring together. also the spaniards live close to one another. two of them moved to the mainland to reap the benefits of practice. the same has been true in snooker for decades, they cluster up and practice together, many of them without coaches. the scottish boys are all business, treat it like any other day job.

maybe the US is worse off geographically in that regard, but you always have to sacrifice something. if prize money increases in pool it may very well be worth it, even if current fargo rates predicts this or that.
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the US is worse off in organization. When you all discuss the federations you all get stuck on money and stipends. Yes, the federations sponsor their players. But, the salary is not the trick (or not much to speak of). They sponsor them to go to events and compete and they organize trainings, camps, coaches, etc.... No BCA or anybody else in the US seems to do that.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Nice write up Stu.

IMO, and we all have one...

For USA to be competitive again, in both the Mosconi Cup and international pool competitions, we need a central training academy. Between tour stops, all the top USA pros would eat and sleep there, for a month straight. Do drills. Work on weak areas. Work on strategy. Review tape of their matches, and set up situations they played poorly as a lesson plan. They would each build up their peer's game. The Mosconi coach could be the head coach.

Not only would the top pro's be here, but kids too. The pros could work with the kids. The coaches could work with the pros. Etc.

This would strengthen the current USA pro level, and strengthen the junior level for tomorrow's top USA pros.

I don't see us ever being the top again with the lone wolf strategy. Our players need to work together to help each other.
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The key here is kids. Pool is an inaccessible game for most kids. Most tables are cordoned off in 21+ venues, so most play anyone gets is when it's too late to really prosper into world class. It's not a coincidence that Shane comes from a family of players, so he was playing from when he was a small kid.

The pool of American kids who are playing from an early age is very small, so while our population might be 300+ million, the effective population (those who grow up with pool) of is probably well under a million, maybe even well under 100k. We're like a small country development-wise.

In order for the US to be competitive internationally, there needs to be some way of getting lots of kids involved who grow up with the game, like many kids do with baseball or basketball or tennis, or even golf. There needs to be an established development system.

How to effect that change? I have no clue. But until that happens, the US will be an also-ran on the international stage.
 
Rocket354 said:
The key here is kids. Pool is an inaccessible game for most kids. Most tables are cordoned off in 21+ venues, so most play anyone gets is when it's too late to really prosper into world class. It's not a coincidence that Shane comes from a family of players, so he was playing from when he was a small kid.

The pool of American kids who are playing from an early age is very small, so while our population might be 300+ million, the effective population (those who grow up with pool) of is probably well under a million, maybe even well under 100k. We're like a small country development-wise.

In order for the US to be competitive internationally, there needs to be some way of getting lots of kids involved who grow up with the game, like many kids do with baseball or basketball or tennis, or even golf. There needs to be an established development system.

How to effect that change? I have no clue. But until that happens, the US will be an also-ran on the international stage.
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There is a growing need to have a bar industry for the under 18 crowd.

Think esports lounge plus pool tables and ping pong and chess.

Esports lounges are looking to expand in the US.

Drop your high schooler off to hang with high school and professional college crowd while they train in games.

Sell asian food that does not smell. Esports lounges need a food menu that is easy to store and last a long time.

Overhead has to be easy to move in case flood or hurricance. How many pool tables do you need to recruit a few players? Mix it in with the etech industry.
 
Crazy that even in short races to 5 with alternating break there's such disparity in the teams. Then Shane played like a B player so that was that.

Should have led with Fedor...who's the most consistent player we had. Ice in his veins.
 
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jay helfert said:
Welcome back Stu. Your report only underlines what all of us saw and discussed during all four days of the MC, and continued to discuss for days afterwards.

It was a thrashing of the highest order, that spared no one. Even our two big guns were treated to multiple beatdowns. A miserable look for Team usa, a bunch of JV's versus a team of Pros.

Barry Hearn said it best on Day Four. The American players need to take this seriously and get out there and compete internationally against these superior players, or only fall further behind.

Will that happen, it's doubtful. The u.s. team will continue to show up every year and collect their second place paycheck. Hey, it's free money!
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The truth hurts, Jay, but it can point the way. If this was the year in which American fans on AZB, as a group, stopped being delusional about the state of American pool, I'm sorry I missed it.
 
I had Team USA at @ 20% probability, (I missed an opportunity). The ONLY times team USA had opportunity was when there was some hope. That Hope came from a sparkplug,.... Like Johann, Team training, and enthusiastic players like; Dennis Hatch & (dare I say it), Earl. Five Individuals no matter their talent is not a team.
 
sjm said:
While JJ must be held accountable for this poor effort, I don't think he's the problem. Had Eckert coached Team USA and JJ coached Team Europe, it still would have been 11-3. A general whose soldiers are poorly trained will not often fare well in battle.

Perhaps I expect too much of a coach., but when a Mosconi Cup coach holds the post year after year, they have the opportunity to get in the faces of the players and demand that they work on areas in which they have underperformed. There is no evidence that this is being done and players seem to have the same weaknesses year after year.


My guess is that MR will stick with JJ, provided that he wants the post. Of those who have yet to coach a Team USA, I'd like to see Mike Sigel, Allen Hopkins or Kim Davenport as coach. I suspect, however, that MR would go younger, but at this point, I'll pass on anyone who hasn't represented Team USA multiple times.
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SJM... I ALMOST NEVER DISAGREE WITH YOU!...but Mike Sigel would be a disaster.
 
as bob has shown when a contest has a prohibitive favorite it doesn't even pay to compete.
so
you have to change things or leave.

so force shorter races so the edge may not show up as quickly. and or
increase your chances of winning by closing the difference in skill set.
nothing else will change things. that is the reality of it.
 
sjm said:
The truth hurts, Jay, but it can point the way. If this was the year in which American fans on AZB, as a group, stopped being delusional about the state of American pool, I'm sorry I missed it.
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On the first day we saw Shane miss hangers on easy (really easy!) shots on the seven and nine balls. He was unable to complete two open run-outs. That set the tone for the next three days. This time no one (not even Fedor) played well for Team USA. There will be no highlight reel from this appearance.
 
Rocket354 said:
The key here is kids. Pool is an inaccessible game for most kids. Most tables are cordoned off in 21+ venues, so most play anyone gets is when it's too late to really prosper into world class. It's not a coincidence that Shane comes from a family of players, so he was playing from when he was a small kid.

The pool of American kids who are playing from an early age is very small, so while our population might be 300+ million, the effective population (those who grow up with pool) of is probably well under a million, maybe even well under 100k. We're like a small country development-wise.

In order for the US to be competitive internationally, there needs to be some way of getting lots of kids involved who grow up with the game, like many kids do with baseball or basketball or tennis, or even golf. There needs to be an established development system.

How to effect that change? I have no clue. But until that happens, the US will be an also-ran on the international stage.
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When the day comes that a young kid sees a chance to make real money playing pool, that will be when we see more kids getting serious about being a poolplayer.

How that looks to me is when there is a season full of 500K (or more) tournaments with 100K first prizes, that will be the carrot that attracts them enough to devote themselves to the game.

The money on offer now is good, better than ever before, enough to attract young players from more impoverished (but not always) environments, but still not enough to divert many young American athletes away from the major sports, plus golf and tennis.
 
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Have you tried to play pool on top of a horse?

Why not elevate the pool tables for the equestrian group?

Its called Marco Pool o

I am serious. Bring pool to places that have not tried it.

The other option was to make pool popular for blind people. Think CB radio shows, but for pool.

Its called Blind-yards.
 
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