SJM at 2023 Mosconi Cup- Malice at the Palace
- Thread starter sjm
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I don’t see an Olympic training center type thing happening. However, in other areas the best or aspiring younger people congregate in an area that becomes a hotspot. I haven’t read the article yet, but there is something in the latest Golf Digest about that. Happens in things other than just sports, artists, writers etc... right? I think the model may have to be more like Westside Barbell or Venice Beach for the bodybuilders back in the day. Like the promising players gravitate to an area with coaching and competition. This would involve living broke/ like grad students- but pool players do that now in many cases. Some might have to have... some form of employment. Would not be easy and this has not been the culture in pool. But think of the guys who moved to be at westside so they could win at powerlifting. No money in that.
Probably won’t happen. But don’t those books looking at talent note hotspots where a bunch of successful players come from. Often a hardcore atmosphere without shiny equipment or tons of money. You get great competition but you do need coaching.
I wonder if MR itself would consider a training center. I don't think it would cost that much. Rent a warehouse. Build it out into 10 tables and a bunch of dorm rooms. $60 a day for food per resident.
In online communities its called dropshipping.
Think one day pop up events, well planned, low cost and high mobility. Not easy to track.
Plan a space, then rent out the sections for the hustlers. Fly in the spectators. Last minute improvised notices.
Do people really want to live in one area? After everything that happened
Think one day pop up events, well planned, low cost and high mobility. Not easy to track.
Plan a space, then rent out the sections for the hustlers. Fly in the spectators. Last minute improvised notices.
Do people really want to live in one area? After everything that happened
(Disclaimer: I may be remembering this incorrectly!)
I recall the closest we have had to a "coach" was Mark Wilson's 3 years. He worked with the top 10 contenders 5 or 10 times the whole year. He brought them to his training center. Set up lessons with them, etc. Worked on mechanics. Then he picked his top 5 at the year end. They were a cohesive team of 10 the whole year.
We still lost miserably those years, but I feel that's probably the strategy we need, year after year after year, with the kids and the adult pros.
I recall the closest we have had to a "coach" was Mark Wilson's 3 years. He worked with the top 10 contenders 5 or 10 times the whole year. He brought them to his training center. Set up lessons with them, etc. Worked on mechanics. Then he picked his top 5 at the year end. They were a cohesive team of 10 the whole year.
We still lost miserably those years, but I feel that's probably the strategy we need, year after year after year, with the kids and the adult pros.
Have the kids compete on film with pro camera guys then chew them out on social media with voting contests.
Just because its been done in the past does not mean it has to continue forward. Thats hope and hit, its got to stop.
Ding ding ding
Just because its been done in the past does not mean it has to continue forward. Thats hope and hit, its got to stop.
Ding ding ding
maybe self-promotion is what the team needs
I suspect we agree here more than you think, Jay.
I'm not making light of the coaching that occurs leading up to the event, which is important, but the coach's role during the event itself is near zero.
Setting the lineup is trivial and no number of "let's go" comments makes much difference. Fundamentals can't ever be fixed on the fly and any suggestion that players are making mid-match tactical adjustments doesn't jive with anything I've ever seen in countless Mosconi Cups attended.
Yes, it shouldn't have been this lopsided. Perhaps Team USA should have lost 11-6, but Bob Jewett's math said we were huge longshots going in and that's how I saw it, too. I'm not THAT surprised by 11-3, because we so rarely entered any match as the clear favorite.
As for teamwork, Team USA, to Jeremy Jones' credit, looked like a cohesive unit to me, but when the three guys with the most Mosconi experience on Team USA (SVB, Sky, Tyler) all played poorly, no amount of teamwork could have made up for it.
Preparation, which can be greatly influenced by the right coach, makes all the difference, but coaching during the event will always seem trivial to me.
The training US pool needs is called 'Play pool on damn 9ft not some 7ft crackerbox'. Until then all the coaching in the world won't change the outcomes. I've heard all the Ruhan,Rojan whatever his name was stories. Think the Euro coach this yr made any diff? None. They were a better team pure and simple. Oh yeah, no bar boxes in Europe unless you count those blackball tables. The US will be a big under-dog for the forseeable future. We MIGHT sneak in a win every now and then. Might.
We do agree most of the time and sometimes we don't. This just happens to be one of those times. You hit the nail on the head when you said that our three most experienced players played poorly.
For that very reason is why on site coaching is so important. These guys know how to play pool! That's a given. Just check their records. They aren't going to learn much ahead of time to suddenly make them better players. So the goal for the coach should be to send them out prepared to play like the 800+ players they are.
That didn't happen did it. They played more like low 700 (or less) players. Makes me wonder why. They were obviously unprepared for the uphill battle ahead.
My experience has been that what I have to say to my player before he steps into the arena can be vitally important to his success. It is then incumbent on me to make the right observations and use that information to motivate my guy (or gal) to show his best game and not his worst!
One day I will share with you what I said to John Schmidt before he played in the finals of the Sands Regency. He was sounding awed by it all and was ready to accept second place. Thirty minutes later he got in there and bombed his opponent (I think Tony Ellin?) into submission! Thank you
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Its ok the MC was in Shaw's hometown, what's wrong with the home crowd being the intimidating factor.
Where does SVB have his following turn out for him?
American pool needs a homebase, how about the PI? Train a few months, then compete on road, carry a few rackers and equipment checkers and statisticians..
Where does SVB have his following turn out for him?
American pool needs a homebase, how about the PI? Train a few months, then compete on road, carry a few rackers and equipment checkers and statisticians..
Thanks for the insights. Your experience certainly trumps some of what I've seen up close. Agree to disagree on what is usually the case.
stewie
Active member
That would explain general turnout numbers, but not why Europe is doing better than the US. Neither is the definition of the poor man in the world.
The players execute the plan, the coaches strategize.
Ever watch Tom Landry or Bill Bellichek DURING a game? How about the a few more? Chuck Knoll, Bud Grant, Bill Walsh. These guys would observe the entire time and maybe say one sentence to an asst. coach to make an "adjustment."
The opposite would be John Madden, Buddy Ryan, and Bum Phillips. They were loud and vocal. No adjustment, run the plan.
Point I am trying to make is this: You gotta have a plan man!
Even for when things go wrong. SVB is not a good leader. He even knows that, yet because of his ability, he is foist into the team leader role. His not wanting to play certain opponents is telling. He was not ready, nor do I think he has been in the past. Throwing Fedor into the limelight for a first time appearance was not going to be fruitful.
More training time together. More coaching to have players ready for whatever gets thrown at them.
I never used to enjoy Basketball until I watched the coaches.
Ever watch Tom Landry or Bill Bellichek DURING a game? How about the a few more? Chuck Knoll, Bud Grant, Bill Walsh. These guys would observe the entire time and maybe say one sentence to an asst. coach to make an "adjustment."
The opposite would be John Madden, Buddy Ryan, and Bum Phillips. They were loud and vocal. No adjustment, run the plan.
Point I am trying to make is this: You gotta have a plan man!
Even for when things go wrong. SVB is not a good leader. He even knows that, yet because of his ability, he is foist into the team leader role. His not wanting to play certain opponents is telling. He was not ready, nor do I think he has been in the past. Throwing Fedor into the limelight for a first time appearance was not going to be fruitful.
More training time together. More coaching to have players ready for whatever gets thrown at them.
I never used to enjoy Basketball until I watched the coaches.
Well said, Jay!
Jesus dude it’s just a play on words. Calm down lol it’s not that serious.