The Impossible One Railer

The higher the angle the more topspin you will get with inside because it’s going more towards the
DeadStick said:
The only way I know how to give topspin to an OB is to put backspin on the CB. Inside would do nothing to give the OB topspin.
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no the higher the angle of the cut the more inside English will apply to the OB because it’s traveling closer to the forces direction so the cbs forward force with get lessened less and the right force will apply to OB more the bigger the angle
 
It’s not a lot but hit the combo and you can see the difference. Outside won’t transfer to the OB as much as angle gets bigger because that force is moving away from the OB
 
3 ways to make that shot:

curve the cueball from outside in to the object ball

double kiss the shot hitting it fuller

two rail the cueball into the object ball.
 
Willowbrook Wolfy said:
no the higher the angle of the cut the more inside English will apply to the OB because it’s traveling closer to the forces direction so the cbs forward force with get lessened less and the right force will apply to OB more the bigger the angle
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Willowbrook Wolfy said:
It’s not a lot but hit the combo and you can see the difference. Outside won’t transfer to the OB as much as angle gets bigger because that force is moving away from the OB
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I'm gonna tap out on this discussion.
 
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I tried the double kiss. I could not get it to bank near the corner, more like straight across the table. There could very well be the perfect spot/spin/speed combo, but I could not find it in about 10 min of trying and gave up.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Side spin on the CB can only transfer side spin to the OB, not top or bottom spin. Inside spin might make the OB go a little faster, which I suppose could look like a little transferred top spin...

pj
chgo
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Yes a faster moving ball will always have more top spin once it starts rolling than a slower moving one automatically. That’s kind of the point of top spin. To get the ball rolling sooner. Center and draw you are sliding more. Once the ball takes on either it has topspin.
But when you hit a cut at same speed with inside and outside inside will always make the ball go farther than outside even if the ball slides into another ball without rolling because of the direction of the force applied to the OB
 
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iusedtoberich said:
I tried the double kiss. I could not get it to bank near the corner, more like straight across the table. There could very well be the perfect spot/spin/speed combo, but I could not find it in about 10 min of trying and gave up.
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The 10 ball bank with a double kiss video above could be a starting point. It is not so far from the bank you made.

If I recall correctly.... The OP shot was presented a long time ago as an Efren shot. The cue ball went five cushions for position on a ball along his side cushion. I don't recall any video at the time.
 

Here is my best double kiss attempt (several looked about the same, just showing one), and my 4 best inside spin like Bill's shot attempts. One went, but on a trick;) Short video, just 20 seconds long.

My arm is worn out, this is like practicing the break. I'm calling it quits:)
 
Willowbrook Wolfy said:
...when you hit a cut at same speed with inside and outside inside will always make the ball go farther than outside ... because of the direction of the force applied to the OB
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Except when the OB is driven into the rail. Then the side spin transferred onto the OB is "braking" spin against the rail, shortening the rebound angle and slowing the OB, easily canceling the slight initial speed boost from throw.

pj
chgo
 
@Bob Jewett I've been trying your spot shot cut shot. That is way harder I think. My arm is now really dead. I hit it once as thin as I ever hit a ball, it barely bobbled, and I don't think it was going in the right direction. The closest I got it with some speed on the OB was just below the first diamond from the pocket. I'm hitting it outside and a bit down on the ball. The balls have a few days of play on them, and are 15 some years old.
 
iusedtoberich said:
@Bob Jewett I've been trying your spot shot cut shot. That is way harder I think. My arm is now really dead. I hit it once as thin as I ever hit a ball, it barely bobbled, and I don't think it was going in the right direction. The closest I got it with some speed on the OB was just below the first diamond from the pocket. I'm hitting it outside and a bit down on the ball. The balls have a few days of play on them, and are 15 some years old.
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You probably are not using enough outside and the balls have to be dirty. As in, you may have to make the object ball dirty.

A local league player who is roughly a 400 FargoRate asked me about the shot and if he could try to shoot it. Unlike many low-to-medium players, he was willing to hit way, way over on the side of the cue ball after strong encouragement. On one try he overcut the ball -- about 105 degree cut -- but it only went six or eight inches.

Here is the shot we are talking about: One pocket, spot a ball on the foot spot. Put the cue ball almost in the jaws of your opponent's pocket, but move it straight towards the spotted ball so you can cue it OK. Cut the spotted ball directly into your pocket with a level stroke and a lot of outside. The cut is 93 degrees geometrically. There are at least two videos on YouTube of the shot.
 
DeadStick said:
Thanks. I'm pretty sure Alex's was just a thin cut, like mine. Those still frames show it on a thin cut line, and his CB took nearly the same bank path as mine, just hit about a half diamond shorter on the opposite long rail.

Not sure if he used low right, but that's what worked best for me. Low helps the CB hit the opposite long rail first, right helps reduce cut-induced throw/spin on the OB. I had a few where the CB stayed up in the kitchen, also, like he was talking about.

I'm not even sure how a double kiss would work on this shot, especially at the speeds we shot it at. Hitting the OB right of center at that speed, the CB is going to drive the OB into the rail and be long gone after the first strike.
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It's a double kiss for sure, I just shot this tonight and actually made it first attempt. Took a few more tries to make it again, but definitely a double kiss. It just happens very fast.
 
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