Should All Skill Levels Have an Equal Chance to Win a Weekly 9-Ball Handicapped Tournament?

one additional thought: there are regular events with handicaps and split brackets. Which makes sense, if you want to avoid giving too much of a spot. The downside for some is: If the split is at 560, the 500+ in the lower bracket are "stuck" in match-ups where they are less likely to shine and improve their Fargo quicker. They have almost no chance to win in a big upset against somebody stronger.
 
I just tt a young player who frequents a weekly just like you describe. He hasn't played long, but has a good stroke for the short time he's been playing. Problem is, they determined his level and he finishes close to the money every week, but never in it. Always the same core group of players winning each week.
His question is how did they determine how to rank him and if he shows that often but never wins, wouldn't that be a clue that his handicap needs adjustment?? How long will he have to play in these in order to place?? Or is that the point??
Fodder for the cannons??
Just curious.
If he often finishes near the money but in the top half of the field, it sounds like his handicap ranking may be about right. There are exceptions, but most TDs take the job of accurately ranking the players seriously, although it is not easy to do. The more of these weekly tournaments he plays in, the more data the TD has to be able to accurately rank him.
 
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I don't recall a gap being established earlier on. Just that comments that nothing is learnt by being steam rolled. I definitely got steam rolled, that much is for sure...lol. I like to think I learned something :oops:
i said that you can’t learn much from the chair.

i also learn a little bit about breaking the balls by watching svb, and i learn about magic one pocket shots from watching tony chohan, but that doesn’t make me any better at either.

you are right though in that if you pay attention to just about anything there is some knowledge to be gained
 
i said that you can’t learn much from the chair.
You're not the only one with a similar stance. Forgive the generalized rebuttal for sake of not quoting everyone individually and responding to specific grammar. "Much" is subjective anyway. It could be only one thing, but monumental in terms of game IQ.
i also learn a little bit about breaking the balls by watching svb, and i learn about magic one pocket shots from watching tony chohan, but that doesn’t make me any better at either.

you are right though in that if you pay attention to just about anything there is some knowledge to be gained
Your or anyone else's inability/desire to convert gained knowledge into practical ability has no bearing on whether or not there was something to be gained.
 
I don't know a stronger player that doesn't prefer tiered entry over handicaps. At least at that point players can reap from what they actually sow in developing their games. It's been a long time but I would like to think the bottom enders would also enjoy paying less. Of course tiered entry doesn't stop their feelings from getting hurt when the strong bitch slap them in an equal race.

When it gets dumb is when they double whammy the strong with both handicap and tiered entry. At that point is not about engaging the weak but penalizing the strong.
Don't forget they also like to cap those same events. Did I mention that we have a local "643 and under" event? How awesome is that?!?!
 
Your or anyone else's inability/desire to convert gained knowledge into practical ability has no bearing on whether or not there was something to be gained.
i think inability is the key word here. i don’t have a fargo but i’m sure it is low.
This is you speaking as like a 680 ish player though is it not? Playing like 50 points above isn't really what people are referring to here, it's the 700 vs a 400 or lower kind of steam rolling.

in any case, i have and do agree with you that there’s knowledge to be had.
 
Don't forget they also like to cap those same events. Did I mention that we have a local "643 and under" event? How awesome is that?!?!
lol... we've had a few decent events come up recently that were capped conveniently at the number of the organizer. :ROFLMAO:

One was a 16 man, $500 entry event, capped at 675 if I recall correctly. The organizer played in another prior 675 event that I was in as well. My results netted a positive gain, his were even. So his event was at 675, and not the rounded up value of 680. ;)
 
I think the tournaments should be played with no handicap. People always try find ways to lower their skill level or complain about others sandbagging. Whatever happened to the playing with no handicap? We have become to soft, maybe everyone should get a participation trophy. Have your tournament with no handicap at all, maybe it will encourage people to play their best!
 
... As the TD, I struggle with trying to find the right compromise to satisfy all levels of players - virtually an impossible task. Opinions?
If you don't already have an automatic rating adjustment method, adopt one. Here is a simple way to do it:

Have a rating, like FargoRate with a bunch of levels. If a player wins a match, he goes up one small step. If a player loses a match he goes down one small step. This alone will ensure that eventually everyone will be winning about half of their matches.

Second step: have a larger range of spots. If 6-2 gives some weaker players very little chance, go to 10-2. Even consider 5-1, 6-1, etc.
 
Second step: have a larger range of spots. If 6-2 gives some weaker players very little chance, go to 10-2. Even consider 5-1, 6-1, etc.
It's rare for me to find myself not agreeing with you Bob, but the highlighted above is the level of handicapping that destroys tourneys. A race to one in a game of chance is ridiculous.
 
It's rare for me to find myself not agreeing with you Bob, but the highlighted above is the level of handicapping that destroys tourneys. A race to one in a game of chance is ridiculous.
The 1 will still have less than a 50% chance to win at 6-1 if there is a wide range of abilities in the tournament. Think 700 vs. 250. At 6-2 the weaker player can expect to win one match in 30. 6-1 gives only a 23% chance to the weaker player. The better player needs to feel some pressure. He should feel as much pressure as if he were evenly matched. Or close to it.
 
If I’m a skill level 3 in a handicapped tournament with high levels I’m scwhacking at the 9 ball all night long, every chance I get. That’s my advice for low levels in one of those tournaments. If nothing else you might make a high level a bit nervous that way. Especially if one goes in for you.
This is correct. This is the way 9 ball is supposed to be played. Now, unfortunately, a lot of places make you call the 9. One whole league in my area even makes you call every single ball in 9 ball!
 
The 1 will still have less than a 50% chance to win at 6-1 if there is a wide range of abilities in the tournament. Think 700 vs. 250. At 6-2 the weaker player can expect to win one match in 30. 6-1 gives only a 23% chance to the weaker player. The better player needs to feel some pressure. He should feel as much pressure as if he were evenly matched. Or close to it.
In 9B with a wild money ball? I would never play in a 9B tournament if there is a chance I could face an opponent that only has to win one game. I don’t care what their level is.
 
In 9B with a wild money ball? I would never play in a 9B tournament if there is a chance I could face an opponent that only has to win one game. I don’t care what their level is.
Even if you cash a quarter of the time?
 
There's just no point in playing a match like this EXCEPT to chase some cash. Especially if you're the lesser player. I would like to see someone try my handicapping system instead. Instead of the crazy spots, and unequal races, try the "Lowest 2" or "Lowest 3" with the breaks if need be, but with an equal race. When skill level is closer you can go back to wild balls.

I do think that has potential. I need to try it with some other players.

***edit***
I'm referring to the crazy 6-1 races or more unequal.
 
I wouldn’t know if I cashed because I wouldn’t ever play. That spot is stupid. One dry break or bad safety and the 9B will be flying. No thanks.
Exactly. You're not playing pool anymore. The bottom ender is just riding the nine at every opportunity.
 
Exactly. You're not playing pool anymore. The bottom ender is just riding the nine at every opportunity.
I'd play a 6-1 race against a 300-400 fargo. They'd hate it because I'd play tighter than a dolphin's butthole.
 
call me crazy but I thought that was the point of a handicap tournament to make it even. So yeah I guess it should
 
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