What a tool!!!

Bob Jewett said:
I think you may be missing what an "obvious" shot is under CSI rules. It's possible for an entire match to be played with no ball ever explicitly called.
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I haven't seen the CSI rules. I will say that I have never played ten ball under rules that didn't require calling the ten. Not saying we called the ten, most of the time we didn't even shoot it, but we were comparatively small groups and comfortable with not making a big deal over nitpicking things like straight in money balls.

As you pointed out earlier, there is a list of "not obvious" shots by rule. That is what caught the young lady as we both no doubt recognize. The shot was obvious and any other option almost impossible. Under most circumstances, we would all be fine with the no-call, as many have said maybe mention it between games.

Some of these rules and regulations seem silly but the line has to be drawn somewhere. I understand that, I still have a couple questions in my mind. Might as well stay there and fill up some loose spaces!

Hu
 
Coos Cues said:
There is simply no situation that comes up in the game of 10 ball where calling safe is necessary or advantageous in any way.

The result of the shot always speaks for itself.
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Right you are. The lack of any safe in 10 ball is worded differently in the CSI rules than in the WSR and I thought there was a safe play in CSI after not reading all the rules all the way through.
 
ShootingArts said:
... I have never played ten ball under rules that didn't require calling the ten. ...
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Neither the CSI rules nor the WPA rules require the calling of "obvious" shots. That includes the game-winning ball at eight ball and ten ball. If they are obvious, they do not have to be called.
 
There is no such thing as good sportsmanship for not adhering to the stipulated rules. In golf, a pro can set the new course record and win the Masters on the final day only to lose because he signed his scorecard that had a mistake he overlooked.

The player did shoot a new Augusta record and beat the field but is still disqualified. Rules are written to be followed,
adhered to, not selectively enforced. If you had to mark your pocket in 8 ball but forgot and nonetheless, made an incredible shot to win, or worse, pocketed a blatantly obvious shot, like a 8 ball hanger, for the win but failed to mark your pocket, your opponent should’t say nice shot and congratulate you for a win when you just lost. You can’t pick and choose which rules apply and when. The rules apply every time you or your opponent are at the table, not most of the time. She lost because she violated the rules and in doing so, learned a valuable lesson she’ll hopefully never do again by being careless. All the pundits condemning her opponent are just being sympathetic but are very unrealistic. Her opponent did nothing to make her forget.

Learn the rules before playing in any tournament since there can always be variations announced before actual play begins.
 
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sjm said:
This is well said.

In one sense, Savannah reminds me of the early teen Loree Jon Ogonowski (now known as BCA Hall of Famer Loree Jon Jones), who traveled to tournaments with her father (and coach) John, a New Jersey poolroom owner and a very well-grounded man. He kept her under wraps, for the most part, when she was Savannah's age, and this was to her advantage. Savannah has been given the kind of attention that Loree Jon didn't get at that same age, and that may put more pressure on her than Loree Jon ever had to deal with.

Loree Jon's game blossomed quickly and she was World Straight Pool Champion by the age of 15. Perhaps it will happen for Savannah, too, but the odds are greatly against her and the attention she's getting will make it harder for her to focus solely on her development as a player.

It's easy to suggest that she has a sense of entitlement, but if so, it is not her fault, because it has been others that have put her in the spotlight and given her fame far beyond a level reconcilable with her accomplishments to date.

Then again, how can we fault those that have put her in the spotlight? After all, it has been thirty years since an American woman won the WPA World 9-ball (Loree Jon in 1993) and seventeen years since an American won the junior WPA World 9-ball (Mary Rakin in 2007) although Sofia Mast reached the final a year ago. In that context, maybe a thirteen-year old whose Fargo exceeds 600 is a big deal.

Savannah's being treated as a future champion and maybe she is one, but I wonder whether being treated as such will help her in the long run.
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Stu, did you know that after Loree Jon won the World Championship I got her booked on a TV show called That's Incredible. She did a really amazing trick shot (the Pyramid shot) on the show. That brought her a lot of notoriety. It was a very popular show back then. Maybe someone on here can find a tape of that show. That would be cool.
sjm said:
That's great, Jay. I never knew that.
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It's okay youngster! In the pool world I'm a dinosaur. :cool:
 
jay helfert said:
Stu, did you know that after Loree Jon won the World Championship I got her booked on a TV show called That's Incredible. She did a really amazing trick shot (the Pyramid shot) on the show. That brought her a lot of notoriety. It was a very popular show back then. Maybe someone on here can find a tape of that show. That would be cool.

It's okay youngster! In the pool world I'm a dinosaur. :cool:
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I remember seeing that
 
ShootingArts said:
Savannah does seem to have stage manager parents. No idea how much is her, how much her parents but somebody is certainly trying to monetize her name.

www.roadrunnerindustries.com

Home | Roadrunner Billiard Industries

Follow the journey of Savannah Easton, pool player. Upcoming schedules, news and highlight videos. Billiard related products available to purchase to support "the Roadrunner".
www.roadrunnerindustries.com www.roadrunnerindustries.com

Calling it roadrunnerindustries is scary all by itself if you want to let a child be a child. She flew to seventeen cities to play pool last year aside from any more local stuff. She ranked a very respectable tenth WPBA too. If that was her parents at the end of the video she is much more professional than they are. She may want to be checking what age she can be emancipated in another year or so.

It is fantastic she plays as well as she does. I can't help wondering what the lifestyle cost of that is.

Hu
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Insane how they are capitalizing on her to that extreme. That website is pretty much shameless promotion. A few social media sites would do.
 
Bob Jewett said:
This has been pointed out before, but some seem to have missed it the first time around....

The CSI call-shot rules are very strict. Here is what the CSI rulebook has to say:

When playing call shot games, remember that shots defined as not obvious, and safeties,​
must be explicitly called. There are no exceptions under any circumstances, regardless​
of how simple or obvious the shot may appear. There may be other types of shots that​
must be called as well, depending on the circumstances. Also, please be sure to​
communicate clearly with your opponent when playing a safety. The Rules and Applied​
Rulings have additional guidance for calling shots and safeties.​

Here is the CSI list of non-obvious shots:

The following types of shots are exceptions and are defined as being "not obvious":​
a. bank shots;​
b. kick shots​
c. combination shots;​
d. shots that include caroms, kisses or cushion contacts that are not incidental;​
e. any shot judged as not obvious by the referee.​

The shot was a combination, and therefor absolutely required to be called. I think the CSI rules are very, very clear. The ball was not called. The rule book makes a really big deal about it. Maybe players should pay attention to what the rule book says.

This is how eight ball is played in CSI since eight ball is a call-shot game in the CSI rule book. I assume that nearly every BCAPL and USAPL player knows that the shot in question had to be explicitly called to count.
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That’s basically how I was taught growing up.

One of the things you were always aware of when playing pool is to never touch any ball on the table with your hands or cue. The only ball that can be moved or touch is the cue ball. Just like soccer players, they are very very aware to not touch the ball with their hands. You get kicked out of a game.

Another is always call your shots in 8 ball. That’s why I hate it. Remember the days when people said 9 ball was all luck because you don’t have to call shots? This is a major distinction between the two games. Solids or stripes call your shot. The other numerical order and don’t have to call shots.

It doesn’t matter how obvious the shot is.

Just call the shot so there is no doubt or confusion.
 
jay helfert said:
Stu, did you know that after Loree Jon won the World Championship I got her booked on a TV show called That's Incredible. She did a really amazing trick shot (the Pyramid shot) on the show. That brought her a lot of notoriety. It was a very popular show back then. Maybe someone on here can find a tape of that show. That would be cool.

It's okay youngster! In the pool world I'm a dinosaur. :cool:
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Start watching at 13:35. She has a long segment after the commercial break. Enjoy.
 
Cornerman said:
2. As her opponent, I would never have called it. I would have said something on the down low to remember to call the shot as a ref will call it down the road. That said, Dang Huy flew in from Vietnam. No idea what he’s used to in Vietnam, but I know he’s expecting everyone to play by the rules, and he would expect someone to call him on infractions.
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This.

Admittedly, I stopped reading this thread with this post on Page 6 (at the time of this writing it's at 14) so if this has been addressed/debated already, apologies.

Everyone seems to be responding to this situation looking through a narrow lens, IMO. Surely none of us would have called the foul on her but y'all are missing potential cultural differences. He's from Vietnam. Everything I saw from Matchroom's coverage of the Hanoi Open pointed to the Vietnamese being VERY passionate and knowledgeable about pool. It is VERY likely they are taught to play by the rules. I have a hard time believing the guy "pulled a move" to get an advantage. I'd wager he's competing the way he's been taught and as he's been doing his whole pool playing life...to follow and enforce the rules. Given Savannah's experience and her being an aspiring professional, she should have known better and should have responded better. She made a mistake, plain and simple and the rule was followed. Everyone would have been better served if she (and the adults in her camp) took accountability and moved on. Instead, the world got another view of "ugly Americans" who think the rules don't apply to them.
 
agree with the above except i would have called the mistake on her as its a tournament. and a tournament the rules are the rules.
in a cash game never.
just like if she accidentally touched the cueball i would call that a foul. wouldnt everyone else. where do you draw the line.

and it seems both she and her parents expected the special treatment. which she needs to get over as it isnt going to be that way all or most of the time.
 
Rexus commented that Vietnamese are passionate about pool and he opined are taught to play by the rules.
The notion of not adhering to the rules never enters their mind. The rules are meant to be followed & enforced.

In 1960, I took up the game of pool. My step dad took me to Ames Billiards where he played pool after returning
from WW II. The first thing I had to do was learn the rules and back then, any touching of a object ball on the table,
except when racking or spotting, was a blatant foul. You cannot touch the balls but that slowly changed over time.

It is important to have to read a tournament’s rules before you start playing. However, the idea that you have to be
passionate about pool and it’s governing rules to call a foul is nonsense. If & when you don’t, it is called cheating,
not by you but your opponent, even if their actions were unintended. Not adhering to the rules is just uncompetitive.

So play as casual as you want with your pals but don’t gripe when someone calls you for a foul when it actually is.
There is no such thing as forgiveness, excusing nor overlooking fouls in pool. You pay the price for making mistakes.
 
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maha said:
agree with the above except i would have called the mistake on her as its a tournament. and a tournament the rules are the rules.
in a cash game never.
just like if she accidentally touched the cueball i would call that a foul. wouldnt everyone else. where do you draw the line.

and it seems both she and her parents expected the special treatment. which she needs to get over as it isnt going to be that way all or most of the time.
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It really shows how important following the rules are.

Let’s say this was a cash game at a pool room and both players agreed to a race to 7 and call your shots.

I can guarantee both players will call every shot.

I expect the same in a professional setting.
 
in cash games we would say call all shots not obvious. if it was all shots no matter what then that applies in every case even with a hanger.

and certainly if it was call shot on only the money ball you had better call it or point to the pocket.
 
we went from hating the asian guy and calling him all kinds of names to now agreeing with him and putting down the girl.
a bunch of fickle ninnies here.
  • :)
 
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