The other thing with the rules of 10 ball at these events I didn't like. In the Las Vegas open they allowed early 10 balls but not on the break but in the World's they didn't allow early 10's. If they are going to use these rules atleast keep them consistent.I know you're right Stu, but I watched several matches in the amateur divisons (Ten Ball and Eight Ball) where the players were not strictly adhering to this rule and their opponent said nothing. Of course maybe they didn't know either.
One thing for sure. Savannah learned this lesson the hard way. My real issue here is why even have rules like this in Ten Ball? Who makes these rules, like the eight ball no longer counts on the break in Eight Ball or that the ten ball does not count on the break in Ten Ball. If not, then the nine ball shouldn't count on the break either, since it's far easier to make than the ten ball.
Oh well, in the overall scheme of things it's no big deal, just something to give us fodder on here.
What a tool!!!
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The ole "what I would have done"......I would have sat quietly while she finished the rack....between racks I would have said...."Hey...just an FYI....make sure you call pocket on combos....some joker may call that on you that you did not call the ball"....and left it at that.....
Hoang didn't do that......In hindsight...perhaps he wish he did....maybe he learned something here about rule vs intent as well....IDK.
If I was the opponent (no matter who it was).....I would have said..."Really that was not obvious.... you are really going to call that"?.....If they said yes I would have handed them the ball and "nit-picked" every rule the rest of the match.
It appears...that is exactly what Savannah did......It was whoever was in the background that went overboard....and the people "calling him out" and posting crap about it on Facebook and the "lets make him famous" people.
What I want to know is.....If Savannah was the one that called the rule...(not saying she would based on her actions)......would the public outcry be the same....Or would it have been..."Well hey....He should have known the rules"
As a side note.....I kind of worry a little about this girl.....Yes she is an up and coming good talent....but right now she is a 604 Fargo....(not exactly a world beater).........She "should" get better over time and experience......and yes she has the potential to be a world beater........but It just seems like perhaps the parents and even more so the public is like Jo Jo the happy circus monkey over this girl and trying to jump on the "Road Runner" band wagon and live vicariously through this girl.
I sure hope they don't take the polite innocence you can see in this girl and turn her into some kind of pool Diva.
Hoang didn't do that......In hindsight...perhaps he wish he did....maybe he learned something here about rule vs intent as well....IDK.
If I was the opponent (no matter who it was).....I would have said..."Really that was not obvious.... you are really going to call that"?.....If they said yes I would have handed them the ball and "nit-picked" every rule the rest of the match.
It appears...that is exactly what Savannah did......It was whoever was in the background that went overboard....and the people "calling him out" and posting crap about it on Facebook and the "lets make him famous" people.
What I want to know is.....If Savannah was the one that called the rule...(not saying she would based on her actions)......would the public outcry be the same....Or would it have been..."Well hey....He should have known the rules"
As a side note.....I kind of worry a little about this girl.....Yes she is an up and coming good talent....but right now she is a 604 Fargo....(not exactly a world beater).........She "should" get better over time and experience......and yes she has the potential to be a world beater........but It just seems like perhaps the parents and even more so the public is like Jo Jo the happy circus monkey over this girl and trying to jump on the "Road Runner" band wagon and live vicariously through this girl.
I sure hope they don't take the polite innocence you can see in this girl and turn her into some kind of pool Diva.
They change the rules like we change shirts, any time they feel like it. As to who "they" are, no one's talking!
i've thought the same thing, but didn't want to be the one to say it. otoh, "influencer" is a job now, and maybe that's what they're aiming for. sure got followers (including some unhinged ones).
otoh 2, we can moralize about it, but how is it different from dennis hatch's dad parading him around in pool halls for bets?
It is pretty much not.....but I have not heard of her being in much "action"
To me....it is starting to feel like the "Ball" brothers in the NBA......Dad was a real Don King type....
We're in 99% agreement here, my friend. Yes, 10ball rules have been massaged to the point of absurdity, but that's the branding of the game right now, and if there are those who enjoy it as presently contested, I'm happy for them.I know you're right Stu, but I watched several matches in the amateur divisons (Ten Ball and Eight Ball) where the players were not strictly adhering to this rule and their opponent said nothing. Of course maybe they didn't know either.
One thing for sure. Savannah learned this lesson the hard way. My real issue here is why even have rules like this in Ten Ball? Who makes these rules, like the eight ball no longer counts on the break in Eight Ball or that the ten ball does not count on the break in Ten Ball. If not, then the nine ball shouldn't count on the break either, since it's far easier to make than the ten ball.
Oh well, in the overall scheme of things it's no big deal, just something to give us fodder on here.
Still, what happens in amateur events has no relevance here, and the main theme of my comments has been that if one participates in world class events, one must expect the rules to be enforced very strictly, and that the more casual application of the rules found in lesser arenas of competition such as leagues and poolrooms cannot be expected.
This incident should help Savannah, not hurt her, but if those around her tell her she was not in the wrong on this occasion, and that the application of a rule on the books was stupid, then the danger is that she'll learn nothing. As in life, you have to live by all the laws, not just the ones you agree with. She's young, so it is a life lesson for her.
Wishing her every possible success.
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This is well said.
In one sense, Savannah reminds me of the early teen Loree Jon Ogonowski (now known as BCA Hall of Famer Loree Jon Jones), who traveled to tournaments with her father (and coach) John, a New Jersey poolroom owner and a very well-grounded man. He kept her under wraps, for the most part, when she was Savannah's age, and this was to her advantage. Savannah has been given the kind of attention that Loree Jon didn't get at that same age, and that may put more pressure on her than Loree Jon ever had to deal with.
Loree Jon's game blossomed quickly and she was World Straight Pool Champion by the age of 15. Perhaps it will happen for Savannah, too, but the odds are greatly against her and the attention she's getting will make it harder for her to focus solely on her development as a player.
It's easy to suggest that she has a sense of entitlement, but if so, it is not her fault, because it has been others that have put her in the spotlight and given her fame far beyond a level reconcilable with her accomplishments to date.
Then again, how can we fault those that have put her in the spotlight? After all, it has been thirty years since an American woman won the WPA World 9-ball (Loree Jon in 1993) and seventeen years since an American won the junior WPA World 9-ball (Mary Rakin in 2007) although Sofia Mast reached the final a year ago. In that context, maybe a thirteen-year old whose Fargo exceeds 600 is a big deal.
Savannah's being treated as a future world champion and maybe she is one, but I wonder whether being treated as such will help her in the long run.
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Wow ya this has gotten way out of handI know I said I’d stay out of this thread, and I have for the most part. So here’s additional crap, which I knew would happen. People at the event physically and verbally harassing Dang Huy Hoang.
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I was never with the side that said she’s a kid
she’s not in a kids tournament
It’s just a shitty thing to call what he did in any setting
But sounds like it’s Gone way to far imo
Stu, did you know that after Loree Jon won the World Championship I got her booked on a TV show called That's Incredible. She did a really amazing trick shot (the Pyramid shot) on the show. That brought her a lot of notoriety. It was a very popular show back then. Maybe someone on here can find a tape of that show. That would be cool.
The heckler's a typical bully. No logic just shit to toss.
CaptainBly
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I think this has gone way overboard.
What he did was not wrong! They are playing a professional tournament and he played by the rules. Why should he be attacked for playing by the ruleset? I may disagree with how he handled it but he IS NOT WRONG. I would have told her in between games that combos need to be called regardless of how obvious they look.
I think many are over looking the cultural differences here as well. He comes from a culture of rule following and expects others to adhere to the same. He didn't jump out of his chair and yell foul! Nor was he overly aggressive with her. He simply got up and stated the rule and what happened. It was her mistake and she paid for it. It may seem nity to a lot of players here but why should he have to sit in his chair while she breaks rules? At the proffesional level they are expected to play by the rules are they not? What other rules are ok for your opponent to break or bend? How many before you call a foul? To me this is the issue, they either all play by the rules or eventually their will be cheating to take an advantage, not saying she did that here at all.
Also as a player and a fan of pool since the 80's. I have ALWAYS known 10 ball to be called shot at least and more than not called safe as well. So, I disagree with Stu and Jay, can't believe I am typing that as I respect the hell out of you two. It's the only way I have ever really seen 10 ball. We have a monthly in my area that is called shot called safe. Everyone who plays in it knows combo's, kicks, and banks need to be called, no matter how obvious and easy. Most will even call a hard shot if it isn't readily obvious where it is going.
For people to be accosting him and harrasing him at a tournament is horrible.
Her parents are to blame for the way he is being treated right now.
I just did a quick search of rule sets and they are all called shot for 10 ball.
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What he did was not wrong! They are playing a professional tournament and he played by the rules. Why should he be attacked for playing by the ruleset? I may disagree with how he handled it but he IS NOT WRONG. I would have told her in between games that combos need to be called regardless of how obvious they look.
I think many are over looking the cultural differences here as well. He comes from a culture of rule following and expects others to adhere to the same. He didn't jump out of his chair and yell foul! Nor was he overly aggressive with her. He simply got up and stated the rule and what happened. It was her mistake and she paid for it. It may seem nity to a lot of players here but why should he have to sit in his chair while she breaks rules? At the proffesional level they are expected to play by the rules are they not? What other rules are ok for your opponent to break or bend? How many before you call a foul? To me this is the issue, they either all play by the rules or eventually their will be cheating to take an advantage, not saying she did that here at all.
Also as a player and a fan of pool since the 80's. I have ALWAYS known 10 ball to be called shot at least and more than not called safe as well. So, I disagree with Stu and Jay, can't believe I am typing that as I respect the hell out of you two. It's the only way I have ever really seen 10 ball. We have a monthly in my area that is called shot called safe. Everyone who plays in it knows combo's, kicks, and banks need to be called, no matter how obvious and easy. Most will even call a hard shot if it isn't readily obvious where it is going.
For people to be accosting him and harrasing him at a tournament is horrible.
Her parents are to blame for the way he is being treated right now.
I just did a quick search of rule sets and they are all called shot for 10 ball.
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That's great, Jay. I never knew that.
Fred, when you said you suggested to him what might have been a better approach, I’m just curious what that would / could have been?I know I said I’d stay out of this thread, and I have for the most part. So here’s additional crap, which I knew would happen. People at the event physically and verbally harassing Dang Huy Hoang.
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If he simply warns her either before or after her shot, and doesn’t call the infraction on her right then, we don’t know what would have happened. Yes, it might have been the courteous thing to do, but then she may have likely won that game and possibly won the match. Clearly at that moment he wasn’t willing to take that chance.
Yes, in hindsight with all this negative press, he might have chosen to handle it differently and let her slide, but it’s possible he could have regretted it, if it went against what he felt was the right thing to do and/or if it cost him the match? It just all depends on what his priorities are.
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dquarasr
Registered
i did the same this week in league play. I was struggling, I was terrible. I found out the next day that I probably had my grip hand way too far back which messed up my stroke. It is also why on one of my practice feather strokes I barely touched the CB. No one saw it, even those actually watching. I handed the CB to my opponent. No one knew why. I felt it and called the foul on myself. I ended up losing hill-hill but not because of this foul. I’ll call it on myself if it happens again.
As far as the original topic, the classy thing to do would have been to let the shot stand and warn that it will be called a foul next time. But I also see where people likely traveled a long way at considerable expense so calling the foul is also ok.
How’s that for a wishy-washy opinion?
Coos Cues
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There are a lot of plateaus between 604 and world class.
I've been a 604 since fargorate was invented
possibly. and that may be true.
i did the same this week in league play. I was struggling, I was terrible. I found out the next day that I probably had my grip hand way too far back which messed up my stroke. It is also why on one of my practice feather strokes I barely touched the CB. No one saw it, even those actually watching. I handed the CB to my opponent. No one knew why. I felt it and called the foul on myself. I ended up losing hill-hill but not because of this foul. I’ll call it on myself if it happens again.
As far as the original topic, the classy thing to do would have been to let the shot stand and warn that it will be called a foul next time. But I also see where people likely traveled a long way at considerable expense so calling the foul is also ok.
How’s that for a wishy-washy opinion?
Savannah does seem to have stage manager parents. No idea how much is her, how much her parents but somebody is certainly trying to monetize her name.
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Follow the journey of Savannah Easton, pool player. Upcoming schedules, news and highlight videos. Billiard related products available to purchase to support "the Roadrunner".
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Calling it roadrunnerindustries is scary all by itself if you want to let a child be a child. She flew to seventeen cities to play pool last year aside from any more local stuff. She ranked a very respectable tenth WPBA too. If that was her parents at the end of the video she is much more professional than they are. She may want to be checking what age she can be emancipated in another year or so.
It is fantastic she plays as well as she does. I can't help wondering what the lifestyle cost of that is.
Hu
That is almost assuredly true.