Never forget Mike Lebron

[jason]

It’s funny, old pros and hustlers are often heralded for dumping the sucker. Here, the sucker (allegedly) was the casino. And most people today are going bananas over it.

The dumper isn’t even that bad in the pool world. Way worse is the knocker. Read Bentivegnas book for the low down.

Dumping and gambling (in any endeavor) will never be separated.

Me personally, I don’t care if all of the 8 for fact did this. Maybe ppl will look down on me for saying that.

The truth is that’s just how life works. People are always looking for an edge. Not everyone of course, but certainly some. I was set up 25 years ago by a friend to an out of town way way way better player. Lost a few K. I was mad as hell at the time. I got over it in a few days. Was not mad anymore. Realized he was looking for a score. He was a gambler, like me. He did what he needed to do to build his stake back up.

Anytime money is involved, expect funny business. Facts of life.

Anytime money is involved, expect funny business. Facts of life.

Good advice to heed.

 

[MattPoland]

I do know what happened (all of it) and spoke about on an earlier thread many years ago. I won't be repeating it on here. As far as I'm concerned it's all water under the bridge from over thirty years ago, and has absolutely no bearing on where Pool is at today. Everyone makes mistakes including all of us on here, so time to let this one go. Have a nice night!

I think it makes sense that it doesn’t need to be rehashed.

I just hate to see the word “mistake” when we are describing an intentional choice to engage in a conspiracy of wrongdoing for personal enrichment. A mistake is a barbed wire tattoo on your arm. We don’t have to keep dragging their names in the mud every 10 years but if they really did it we should call it what it is, a period of moral weakness, and then let it go.

 

[JAM]

I am still miffed how anyone can state with 100 percent confidence that this was a dump, unless, of course, they were there on-site and part of the dump. Rumors, innuendoes, and posts by people making assumptions doesn't cut the mustard.

Unless you were there and received funs from someone pertaining to an act of deception, then you have no right to claim it was a dump. You can say you think it might have been, you heard a rumor, you are guessing, or it looked like it, but to say it was indeed a dump is wrong.

If you contact Buddy Hall and Mike LeBron and have them post here on this thread or share a video snippet of them speaking about this match, then that's evidence and not a rumor, innuendo, a guess, or an assumption.

I guess it's a slow day on the forum.

 

[Flakeandrun]

I am still miffed how anyone can state with 100 percent confidence that this was a dump, unless, of course, they were there on-site and part of the dump. Rumors, innuendoes, and posts by people making assumptions doesn't cut the mustard.

Unless you were there and received funs from someone pertaining to an act of deception, then you have no right to claim it was a dump. You can say you think it might have been, you heard a rumor, you are guessing, or it looked like it, but to say it was indeed a dump is wrong.

If you contact Buddy Hall and Mike LeBron and haver them post here on this thread, then that's evidence and not a rumor, innuendo, a guess, or an assumption.

I guess it's a slow day on the forum.

I simply don't believe anyone could miss that badly. If they can, then I understand why pool was perceived by many to be a joke of a game, or not worth watching...

I mentioned before, as someone who saw that for the first time in this thread, I was literally gobsmacked (and then wrote about why).

Any other sport where everyone involved is being conned... viewers, participants and providers. There would be serious life changing consequences for the individual.

I do agree with Jay, that this should be acknowledged for what it is, and used as an example for future. No point in crucifying people who have already lived on through it. Like I mentioned earlier, my personal thoughts, and hopes, are that people who do such things have a conscience heavier than a lead balloon, and try in some way to make amends in any way that they choose.

 

[jokrswylde]

I am still miffed how anyone can state with 100 percent confidence that this was a dump, unless, of course, they were there on-site and part of the dump. Rumors, innuendoes, and posts by people making assumptions doesn't cut the mustard.

Unless you were there and received funs from someone pertaining to an act of deception, then you have no right to claim it was a dump. You can say you think it might have been, you heard a rumor, you are guessing, or it looked like it, but to say it was indeed a dump is wrong.

If you contact Buddy Hall and Mike LeBron and have them post here on this thread or share a video snippet of them speaking about this match, then that's evidence and not a rumor, innuendo, a guess, or an assumption.

I guess it's a slow day on the forum.

Agree with the spirit of this, but if you go back and read through the old threads, Jay was the TD as well as match referee. He was probably as close as one could possibly be and not be directly involved. He claims that 7 out of 8 players were in on it, with Earl being the holdout.

I agree that hearsay is hearsay, but for casual fans with no skin in the game or no connection to pro pool, the statements of the ref. who was present and behind the scenes is compelling.

I realize that for you guys with close, personal connections to players and the game this is a much bigger deal, but for many it is just one chapter of the colorful tapestry that is pool history...fun water cooler talk in the same vein as Ali-Liston and the phantom punch.

As always, I thank all of you for continuing to share the first person accounts of pro pool through the years. These stories, whether myth, legend, or truth, are worthy of being shared.

 

[AtLarge]

Agree with the spirit of this, but if you go back and read through the old threads, Jay was the TD as well as match referee. He was probably as close as one could possibly be and not be directly involved. He claims that 7 out of 8 players were in on it, with Earl being the holdout. ...

No, Earl was not one of the 8 players in the 1991 Challenge of Champions. It was Hopkins that Jay said was not in on the deal.

 

[smiling_Hans]

Speaking of him......his cue is on sale. The very same cue in that tournament. LOL

1991 Challenge of Champions Meucci Cue and Case won by Mike Lebron from the Lebron/ Hall ESPN Match and the Meucci Hard Case 📞

📞 This Product Deserves Personal Attention, Available for Direct Purchase Only There is history, and then there is HISTORY……. Take a look at what we are extremely excited to be offered and sold exclusively at Integrity Cues….. Could be very well one of the biggest piece of Meucci History...

integritycues.com

 

[Flakeandrun]

Speaking of him......his cue is on sale. The very same cue in that tournament. LOL

1991 Challenge of Champions Meucci Cue and Case won by Mike Lebron from the Lebron/ Hall ESPN Match and the Meucci Hard Case 📞

📞 This Product Deserves Personal Attention, Available for Direct Purchase Only There is history, and then there is HISTORY……. Take a look at what we are extremely excited to be offered and sold exclusively at Integrity Cues….. Could be very well one of the biggest piece of Meucci History...

integritycues.com

"integritycues.com" hahaha

 

[Klink]

I am still miffed how anyone can state with 100 percent confidence that this was a dump, unless, of course, they were there on-site and part of the dump. Rumors, innuendoes, and posts by people making assumptions doesn't cut the mustard.

Unless you were there and received funs from someone pertaining to an act of deception, then you have no right to claim it was a dump. You can say you think it might have been, you heard a rumor, you are guessing, or it looked like it, but to say it was indeed a dump is wrong.

If you contact Buddy Hall and Mike LeBron and have them post here on this thread or share a video snippet of them speaking about this match, then that's evidence and not a rumor, innuendo, a guess, or an assumption.

I guess it's a slow day on the forum.

Put Keith on here and let us here his opinion. I've watched enough pool over the years to have my opinion.

 

[jokrswylde]

No, Earl was not one of the 8 players in the 1991 Challenge of Champions. It was Hopkins that Jay said was not in on the deal.

Thanks for the clarification...not sure why I was thinking earl...those two aren't easily confused

 

[Dave714]

I think you are very mistaken about Mikes skill level, he was not a favorite against Buddy , almost nobody was, but he was not helpless either.
Whatever happened , imo, had very little effect on the future of pool. Why you ask, because it was an inevitability that the players would try some move, that's part of being a pool player. If it didn't happen that week, it would have happened 2 weeks later . I think Mike odds were 15/1 to win so was the biggest long shot.

 

[straightline]

This thread - turn on the TV for more clues. The title though - Why Mike Lebron? Who is shooter Hans talking to about what????

 

[JAM]

Put Keith on here and let us here his opinion. I've watched enough pool over the years to have my opinion.

The keyword is "opinion."

 

[Charlie Hustle]

No, it isn't.

To compare it to other betting scandals is to miss the point. The Mirage had just opened and was trying to surpass its next-door neighbor, Caesar's Palace, in sports book handle. One way it tried to do this was by staging sporting events on its own premises, and the biggest beneficiary was boxing. The Mirage built a boxing venue and staged the Buster Douglas vs Evander Holyfield title fight. An unlikely beneficiary of the Mirage's venture into sports was pool, and the staging of the Challenge of Champions at the Mirage gave pool a path to becoming a sport with a significant betting handle.

The actions of a few, that amounted to a very small, but very obvious theft of the sportsbook of the Mirage, erased that chance and almost thirty-five years later, pool has virtually no presence as a betting sport in the Las Vegas sports books.

As usual, sjm is 100% correct, and I couldn't agree more. Very well said.