WPA Bans 245 Players

cueman said:
My take on it is until all the top 100 players are all making over $100,000 in prize money each year from your tour, you are foolish to try and tell them they can't play any other tournaments.
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Pretty much how I feel, although Top 50 would be enough for me.

Compromising the players' opportunities to maximize their income from the sport to which they have dedicated their lives just doesn't work here. As you suggest, once governing bodies, event producers, sponsors and federations get on the same page, which could ensure a decent living for all those who choose pool as a profession, players need to be granted the chance to play in the events they like.

Right now, the players must choose between losing options and they remain victims of the in-fighting within our sport.
 
I've been as guilty as anyone on here of being critical of the WPA. At the same time, I've been with the small minority of posters who are slow to go all in on Matchroom. I love what they've done for professional pool but I just don't see how their product will ever need more than a handful of marketable players for them to grow their product. The remaining players will just be plug and play. Like old school college football. 10 guys give up one year. 10 new ones fill in.

There's just too many great 9 ballers and playing races to 9 or 11 isn't long enough to separate all these great players so they'll just continue to take turns winning while spreading the wealth. We are already in the beginning phase of seeing many of the pros start to figure out there's really not as much money to chase with MR as many on here think.

So I really have no clue how this is going to eventually play out. Everyone thinks the players should stick with Matchroom but the journeymen pros really need both AND then some just to stay afloat.
 
BasementDweller said:
I've been as guilty as anyone on here of being critical of the WPA. At the same time, I've been with the small minority of posters who are slow to go all in on Matchroom. I love what they've done for professional pool but I just don't see how their product will ever need more than a handful of marketable players for them to grow their product. The remaining players will just be plug and play. Like old school college football. 10 guys give up one year. 10 new ones fill in.

There's just too many great 9 ballers and playing races to 9 or 11 isn't long enough to separate all these great players so they'll just continue to take turns winning while spreading the wealth. We are already in the beginning phase of seeing many of the pros start to figure out there's really not as much money to chase with MR as many on here think.

So I really have no clue how this is going to eventually play out. Everyone thinks the players should stick with Matchroom but the journeymen pros really need both AND then some just to stay afloat.
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Possibly the most well thought out post I have read on the topic. I completely agree.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Chinese 8 ball is like chopsticks. Yes, probably more people use chopsticks in the world than any other utensil. But it will never leave the Eastern world and enter the Western world, except in obscure circumstances.
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I've used chopsticks since I was 10 or 11. Not gonna happen for heyball, though. In my view, heyball does not belong in the WPA. If it were organized other than as a commercial enterprise, it should belong to the WCBS directly. It is not pool.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I've used chopsticks since I was 10 or 11. Not gonna happen for heyball, though. In my view, heyball does not belong in the WPA. If it were organized other than as a commercial enterprise, it should belong to the WCBS directly. It is not pool.
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Do you use them when eating steak at Longhorn? Or only when eating Asian food at an Asian restaurant? ha ha ha.

I still can't believe anyone likes rounded pocket tables. They take away so many fun position routes because the balls near the rails won't go.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I've used chopsticks since I was 10 or 11. Not gonna happen for heyball, though. In my view, heyball does not belong in the WPA. If it were organized other than as a commercial enterprise,
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I think it's organized very poorly as a commercial enterprise. It's just a few people stuffing money in their pockets. I won't rehash what I already wrote previously, but I won't be surprised if it becomes China's 'American football' - the only market I can see them potentially pushing toward, if they chose to do anything outside the realm of the Middle Kingdom in the future, is some additional Arab money. I guess the attachment to WPA is a two way street. WPA want some financial backing and a product to peddle. Chinese 8-ball (like most things in China), needs the attachment of some kind of professional body for awards and whatever else
Bob Jewett said:
it should belong to the WCBS directly. It is not pool.
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What makes you say it is not pool? I am curious
 
BasementDweller said:
I've been as guilty as anyone on here of being critical of the WPA. At the same time, I've been with the small minority of posters who are slow to go all in on Matchroom. I love what they've done for professional pool but I just don't see how their product will ever need more than a handful of marketable players for them to grow their product. The remaining players will just be plug and play. Like old school college football. 10 guys give up one year. 10 new ones fill in.

There's just too many great 9 ballers and playing races to 9 or 11 isn't long enough to separate all these great players so they'll just continue to take turns winning while spreading the wealth. We are already in the beginning phase of seeing many of the pros start to figure out there's really not as much money to chase with MR as many on here think.

So I really have no clue how this is going to eventually play out. Everyone thinks the players should stick with Matchroom but the journeymen pros really need both AND then some just to stay afloat.
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I think it will be roughly the same as snooker, eventually. The top 16 will make a nice living, maybe the next 32 will make enough to have a life separate from the sport and the rest will have to have other sources of income to live. If you are selling spectators an interesting competition, you need to have most matches be interesting. #127 playing #66 to qualify for the later rounds of a tournament is not so interesting unless you are related to one of them.

As for the length of the matches, making the early rounds pretty short is what they do now in many snooker events, like race to 4. The finals might be race to 10. This allows for upsets but makes the last several rounds more of a battle. I think two two-hour sessions or the finals of a major would be good. Race to 21?
 
iusedtoberich said:
Do you use them when eating steak at Longhorn? Or only when eating Asian food at an Asian restaurant? ha ha ha.
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Uses them to eat yoghurt
iusedtoberich said:
I still can't believe anyone likes rounded pocket tables. They take away so many fun position routes because the balls near the rails won't go.
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Maneuvering the balls, working out how to detach them and break clusters is fun. I think it brings in skills from a wide variety of other cue sports. 3-cushion, snooker, 235 etc etc
 
Bob Jewett said:
I think it will be roughly the same as snooker, eventually. The top 16 will make a nice living, maybe the next 32 will make enough to have a life separate from the sport and the rest will have to have other sources of income to live. If you are selling spectators an interesting competition, you need to have most matches be interesting. #127 playing #66 to qualify for the later rounds of a tournament is not so interesting unless you are related to one of them.

As for the length of the matches, making the early rounds pretty short is what they do now in many snooker events, like race to 4. The finals might be race to 10. This allows for upsets but makes the last several rounds more of a battle. I think two two-hour sessions or the finals of a major would be good. Race to 21?
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I think your numbers may be right -- the 16/32 idea. I just don't think 9 ball is as discriminating as snooker. Even if a nobody beats Ronnie in a best of 7 frames, he's going to accomplish more than someone winning a race to 9 in 9 ball against a better player.

In a sense we aren't even really seeing all the world's greatest 9 ballers because they aren't coming out of the woodwork from the most populated cue sports country in the world -- China. They're busy with their snoozefest 8 ball game. World beaters are popping up practically overnight from the Philippines. The same would be happening in China if they were interested. So making it into the top 16 is going to be difficult but staying there might be more so.
 
BasementDweller said:
I think your numbers may be right -- the 16/32 idea. I just don't think 9 ball is as discriminating as snooker. Even if a nobody beats Ronnie in a best of 7 frames, he's going to accomplish more than someone winning a race to 9 in 9 ball against a better player.

In a sense we aren't even really seeing all the world's greatest 9 ballers because they aren't coming out of the woodwork from the most populated cue sports country in the world -- China. They're busy with their snoozefest 8 ball game. World beaters are popping up practically overnight from the Philippines. The same would be happening in China if they were interested. So making it into the top 16 is going to be difficult but staying there might be more so.
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I think the issue with pool, especially in short races, is that literally anyone can win once you hit a certain level. The issue is these 'better' players, are simply the ones who have better funding, attend more events, and up their probability of winning. They have less riding on success and can afford to lose. They become psychologically stronger due to the fact they have a fanbase manufactured by sponsors and event organizers like MR. Sure they need to be strong, I'm not denying that.

If you beat Ronnie in a race to 7 at snooker, that's a lifetime accolade. If you beat Gorst in a race to 7 (winner break format), you are a quality player who had a good day.
 
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BasementDweller said:
I've been as guilty as anyone on here of being critical of the WPA. At the same time, I've been with the small minority of posters who are slow to go all in on Matchroom. I love what they've done for professional pool but I just don't see how their product will ever need more than a handful of marketable players for them to grow their product. The remaining players will just be plug and play. Like old school college football. 10 guys give up one year. 10 new ones fill in.

There's just too many great 9 ballers and playing races to 9 or 11 isn't long enough to separate all these great players so they'll just continue to take turns winning while spreading the wealth. We are already in the beginning phase of seeing many of the pros start to figure out there's really not as much money to chase with MR as many on here think.

So I really have no clue how this is going to eventually play out. Everyone thinks the players should stick with Matchroom but the journeymen pros really need both AND then some just to stay afloat.
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It doesn't matter. Does pool have to rely on MR pool to become successful? No. That's like saying that college football players can't be successful because they aren't in the nfl. That was a bad example, but if there weren't rules against paying college football players, my guess is that there'd be college players that make more than some NFL stars. MR becoming more successful generates more interest in pool which elevates the WHOLE sport and allows for other tours and entities to come in and reap the rewards.

What pool needs is exposure and hype, both things that MR is capable of providing and massively excels at.

Jaden
 
Vahmurka said:
Shane even has got a C8 table (from JOY if memory serves me). But you are right that is not the point. I suggest we simply leave C8 aside, because it is totally irrelevant to the topic I think. Yet some continue beating that horse, for whatever puzzling reason.
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You brought it up
 
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