WPA Bans 245 Players

Predator is having THREE non-WPA sanctioned events in Puerto Rico next month that appear to include a mix of banned and non-banned players.

Filler, Biado, Gorst and Ouschan are among those who images are shown. Predator takes care to note that all three are non sanctioned.

Evidently, Filler, Biado and Gorst will be part of a Challenge of Champions pitting the World 8-, 9- and 10-ball champs against each other.

A mixed doubles matchup would also involve Gorst, Filler and others.

Interestingly, the images of players used in an ad for the 64-player Puerto Rico Open - also a non-sanctioned event - does not include any of those who were banned.

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jbart65 said:
Predator is having THREE non-WPA sanctioned events in Puerto Rico next month that appear to include a mix of banned and non-banned players.

Filler, Biado, Gorst and Ouschan are among those who images are shown. Predator takes care to note that all three are non sanctioned.

Evidently, Filler, Biado and Gorst will be part of a Challenge of Champions pitting the World 8-, 9- and 10-ball champs against each other.

A mixed doubles matchup would also involve Gorst, Filler and others.

Interestingly, the images of players used in an ad for the 64-player Puerto Rico Open - also a non-sanctioned event - does not include any of those who were banned.

probilliardseries.com

Events | Pro Billiard Series

Check out the schedule for upcoming Pro Billiard Series events, including dates, locations, tournaments, prize money and more details.
probilliardseries.com probilliardseries.com
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Looks like Predator is getting wise. Going with a full-on WPA-brownnosing stance will bite them in the long run. Without Predator kissing their royal heinies the WPA is running out of allies other than Snoozeball,errrrrrr, Heyball.
 
sjm said:
Perhaps I'm in fantasyland with this post, but here goes. Some facts of pertinence are these:

1) At present, about 60% of the world's population is Asian.
2) Pool is growing much faster in Asia than it is anywhere else,
3) In 2024, Asian players have won the World 10-ball, the UK Open, and the Hanoi Open.
4) Using Fargo as the measure, more than half of the Top 50 players in the world are Asian
3) Asia continues to produce a quickly growing number of top professional players

Hence, I can't help but ask these two questions:

1) Isn't it possible that Asia will become the dominant source of revenue for event producers in pro pool more than anywhere else?
2) Isn't it possible that WPA and Matchroom understand this and that's why they are fighting tooth and nail over Asian pool?

The prevailing view I'm reading on the forum is that no truly elite tour featuring world class play can exist without the banned 245 players. I'd like to think this to be the case, but I'm not nearly as sure as others on AZB. The prevailing winds in the game, to me, at least make it possible that Asia will be the epicenter of pool at some point in the not-so-distant future and that WPA/ACBS can have their day with or without the 245 banned players,

I am glad that Matchroom is pursuing the Asian market so passionately and aggressively (this year adding the World 9-ball in Saudi Arabia and the Reyes Cup in the Philippines,) because I feel strongly that Matchroom's presence in Asia will help to grow our sport.

The governing bodies, event producers, and sponsors need to get on the same page if a damaging split in our sport is to be avoided. For now, the players are powerless and remain hostages to the in-fighting, and that doesn't suit either me or our sport.
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Yeah, but about 80-90% of that 60% are living below the poverty level for western nations.
Yes, but again there is more disposable income available in western nations which is what sponsors want.
Out of what, 12-15 high level tournaments?
Yeah, but they're 60% of the population, so they don't have a similar ratio to their ratio of the population.
Yes, and that's a good point, but again, not necessarily the most desirable audience for sponsors and therefore promoters.

Jaden
 
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Jaden said:
Yeah, but about 80-90% of that 60% are living below the poverty level for western nations.
Yes, but again there is more disposable income available in western nations which is what sponsors want.
Out of what, 12-15 high level tournaments?
Yeah, but they're 60% of the population, so they don't have a similar ratio to their ratio of the population.
Yes, and that's a good point, but again, not necessarily the most desirable audience for sponsors and therefore promoters.

Jaden
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Thanks for a thoughtful and well-presented counterargument. As noted in my post, I'm only allowing for the possibility that Asian growth in pool may one day be enough to make Asian pool the true hotbed of revenue for the event producers. You offer some well-reasoned arguments for why we cannot be so sure that this will come to pass.
 
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Jaden said:
Yeah, but about 80-90% of that 60% are living below the poverty level for western nations.
Yes, but again there is more disposable income available in western nations which is what sponsors want.
Out of what, 12-15 high level tournaments?
Yeah, but they're 60% of the population, so they don't have a similar ratio to their ratio of the population.
Yes, and that's a good point, but again, not necessarily the most desirable audience for sponsors and therefore promoters.

Jaden
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That might be true, I haven’t googled the numbers. But China, Philippines, Japan, and Vietnam are not poor and that’s probably 1.5 billion people. That’s more than people than Western Europe and the USA combined. Yes there are significantly more poor in south Asia but over all there’s a reason the NBA is pushing their brand in Asia. I tend to agree with sjm even though I don’t know if his numbers are right.
 
T411 said:
That might be true, I haven’t googled the numbers. But China, Philippines, Japan, and Vietnam are not poor and that’s probably 1.5 billion people. That’s more than people than Western Europe and the USA combined. Yes there are significantly more poor in south Asia but over all there’s a reason the NBA is pushing their brand in Asia. I tend to agree with sjm even though I don’t know if his numbers are right.
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If you think that more than 30% of China's population is above the poverty level for the US and most western countries, then well I'll leave it at that.

Here's some info really quick.

According to recent data, China has effectively eradicated extreme poverty, meaning the percentage of the Chinese population above the poverty level is considered to be over 99%; however, when using a poverty line more relevant to upper-middle income countries like China ($5.50 per day), around 17% of the population might still be considered below the poverty line.

5.50 per day is about $2000 a year. So for allowing them to have a income of $2000/yr, there's STILL 17% in China, BELOW that.

Here's some more information, based on the poverty level in the US of 15,000/yr for individuals.


Accurate statistics on the percentage of people in China earning at least $15,000 USD annually are challenging to determine precisely, but based on the GDP per capita of around $12,663 USD in 2022, only a fraction of the population earns that much or more. Urban areas, with higher wages, contribute significantly to this group.

Given the disparity between urban and rural incomes, it is likely that a minority of China's population meets the $15,000 threshold, mostly concentrated in urban centers like Shanghai, Beijing, and Shenzhen

Global Economic Data.

So, no China doesn't have moderate to high incomes, they have VERY low incomes in relation to the western world.


Jaden
.
 
Pool needs money in it's events and spectacle. A decade or two ago ladies in evening gowns and trick shot events both outpulled men's pool on TV. I think Willie and Fats outdrew men's pool too. I believe people would have watched them until they were both dead!

On the pool side, the IPT had a lot right. Money and spectacle. Unfortunately nothing else was right. The natural cures branding everywhere might be a lesson to learn though. A major sponsor with branding everywhere could get a lot of TV time if a product(the pool event) could be put together that television would buy.

We need one big buck sponsor probably not related directly to pool. Golf gave away a car for a hole in one on a particular hole in the sixties and seventies. I think that worked well for them.

I don't have answers, partially because I am not being paid to find them. A marketing agency might be a good investment for whoever runs pool.

I do strongly feel that this bonehead move of banning 245 players isn't a step in the right direction.

Hu
 
Jaden said:
If you think that more than 30% of China's population is above the poverty level for the US and most western countries, then well I'll leave it at that.

Here's some info really quick.

According to recent data, China has effectively eradicated extreme poverty, meaning the percentage of the Chinese population above the poverty level is considered to be over 99%; however, when using a poverty line more relevant to upper-middle income countries like China ($5.50 per day), around 17% of the population might still be considered below the poverty line.

5.50 per day is about $2000 a year. So for allowing them to have a income of $2000/yr, there's STILL 17% in China, BELOW that.

Here's some more information, based on the poverty level in the US of 15,000/yr for individuals.


Accurate statistics on the percentage of people in China earning at least $15,000 USD annually are challenging to determine precisely, but based on the GDP per capita of around $12,663 USD in 2022, only a fraction of the population earns that much or more. Urban areas, with higher wages, contribute significantly to this group.

Given the disparity between urban and rural incomes, it is likely that a minority of China's population meets the $15,000 threshold, mostly concentrated in urban centers like Shanghai, Beijing, and Shenzhen

Global Economic Data.

So, no China doesn't have moderate to high incomes, they have VERY low incomes in relation to the western world.


Jaden
.
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I’m not arguing any of that and I’ll take your word for all what you posted but explain why the NBA is pushing their brand in china so hard? I don’t think they’re in it to loose money. I don’t think it’s exactly comparing apples to apples… I’d guess the cost of living in china is significantly lower than in the west. And don’t put words in my mouth… saying it’s not a poor country is not saying it’s a high income country.
 
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T411 said:
I’m not arguing any of that and I’ll take your word for all what you posted but explain why the NBA is pushing their brand in china so hard? I don’t think they’re in it to loose money. I don’t think it’s exactly comparing apples to apples… I’d guess the cost of living in china is significantly lower than in the west. And don’t put words in my mouth… saying it’s not a poor country is not saying it’s a high income country.
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Cost of entry is different for different sports:
Soccer and basketball are extremely low. Hockey, pool, golf, and motorsport are high.

Could be more questions than answers regarding pool specifically though.
 
WPA finds investors and how does anyone know if these investors want the top WPA players competing for their events.

A WPA champion will be declared regardless of who turns up. The WPA can promote with or without banned players. WPA holds exclusive rights for World Championships.

However a true world championship has always been contested because a world competition would have world representation.

The definition of world champion is in question. If the banned players do not compete in the next WPA world
championship.

What should a world champion mean and how can a field determine if it is world class?

My focus on the WPA as an organization making logical moves based on investor money. The bans were not a spontaneous idea, it was motivated by intentions. A planned banned means more planned outcomes.
 
My understanding is that China has high schools that are also sports academies. If you show an aptitude for pool, you go to the academy for pool and a large part of your day is pool (or maybe C8B).
 
sudocrushms said:
Cost of entry is different for different sports:
Soccer and basketball are extremely low. Hockey, pool, golf, and motorsport are high.

Could be more questions than answers regarding pool specifically though.
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cost of entry isn't high for pool. even if you think you need three cues, that can be gotten pretty cheap.
 
Bob Jewett said:
My understanding is that China has high schools that are also sports academies. If you show an aptitude for pool, you go to the academy for pool and a large part of your day is pool (or maybe C8B).
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Might start well before high school. a couple decades ago they were putting gymnasts that they thought showed talent into special schools built around gymnastics at age three! Boarding schools too so full immersion jerk them away from their family to focus on what the government wanted them to be.

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
Might start well before high school. a couple decades ago they were putting gymnasts that they thought showed talent into special schools built around gymnastics at age three! Boarding schools too so full immersion jerk them away from their family to focus on what the government wanted them to be.

Hu
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Interesting side note shared with me by a Chinee foreign exchange student back in college.

A lot of this practice goes back to when China had the One child per family law. Many folks wanted sons, for a variety of reasons. Therefore daughters were not as highly prized. In rural areas, if a farming family gave birth to a little girl at home, often they were literally left to the wolves so that the parents could try again for a son. This eventually led to state sponsored "athletic academies", where families could "give" their daughters to the state in order to keep trying for a son. One reason why in the '80s, China exploded with 13-14 year old Olympic gymnast and divers.
 
jokrswylde said:
Interesting side note shared with me by a Chinee foreign exchange student back in college.

A lot of this practice goes back to when China had the One child per family law. Many folks wanted sons, for a variety of reasons. Therefore daughters were not as highly prized. In rural areas, if a farming family gave birth to a little girl at home, often they were literally left to the wolves so that the parents could try again for a son. This eventually led to state sponsored "athletic academies", where families could "give" their daughters to the state in order to keep trying for a son. One reason why in the '80s, China exploded with 13-14 year old Olympic gymnast and divers.
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I remember that people were getting rid of daughters all kinds of ways. I think children that they admitted to having were about 75% male for awhile, maybe more. That was when they realized the whole one child thing wouldn't work. Everybody wants heirs.

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
I remember that people were getting rid of daughters all kinds of ways. I think children that they admitted to having were about 75% male for awhile, maybe more. That was when they realized the whole one child thing wouldn't work. Everybody wants heirs.

Hu
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And this is why China is facing one of the most severe aging and depopulation crises in the world. Too many boys, not enough girls, not enough new children being born.

This is also why the window to take Taiwan via military measures is only seven years long.

China is in a world of shit...
 
Benelli said:
And this is why China is facing one of the most severe aging and depopulation crises in the world. Too many boys, not enough girls, not enough new children being born.

This is also why the window to take Taiwan via military measures is only seven years long.

China is in a world of shit...
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The early Roman Empire faced a similar crisis circa 750 BC. The serious student of history probably knows how it was purported to have been resolved. It's not a politically correct story to share in these AZB parts, but anyone interested in the subject can look up the story of the Sabine Women.
 
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