Who You Got? Mike Sigel or Nick Varner

[Cornerman]

I didn't miss those. I've mentioned a couple times that I couldn't find a reliable list for the U.S. Open Straight Pool.

Sounds like we know Sigel won a couple U.S. Open 14.1's.

Did Varner ever win that one? The Wikipedia listing for that tourney is missing a lot of data or it just didn't get played a lot of years.

Sigel won one US Open 14.1. His 150 and out against Zuglan is still the most impressive run burned into my brain.

Varner did not win a US Open 14.1 title. Varner’s ‘86 World 14.1 however was televised. He wore a pin striped purple suit that had coat tails. With his red-head afro, he looked unforgettable! Made me a big fan.

 

[Cornerman]

I'm not aware of Varner winning a U.S. Open straight pool tournament. Also, bear in mind, they were not exactly played consecutively in the 70s and 80s. Steve Mizerak bagged I believe four in a row in the mid 70s, then it wasn't played for a while. Believe Mike's most recent wins were 1989 and 1992, but I don't recall Varner winning one. Unlike other sports, it's hard to keep track in pool.

Oliver Ortmann won in ‘89. I believe he beat Mizerak in the finals.

 

[BasementDweller]

Sigel won one US Open 14.1. His 150 and out against Zuglan is still the most impressive run burned into my brain.

I wore my Accu-stats tape of this match out. It was a sad day when I get rid of all my old pool VHS's.

Varner did not win a US Open 14.1 title. Varner’s ‘86 World 14.1 however was televised. He wore a pin striped purple suit that had coat tails. With his red-head afro, he looked unforgettable! Made me a big fan.

What an image. Varner is a truly unique American sportsman. Yeah -- that's how I'll put. It.

 

[jay helfert]

Oliver Ortmann won in ‘89. I believe he beat Mizerak in the finals.

I commentated the Finals for TV with George Fels. I have the video on my website.

 

[jay helfert]

I played in Dayton that year. Buddy beat Mike for the cash. The biggest game was a teenage Allen Hopkins giving Harley Bryant the eight ball for 200 a game. They grinded for what seemed like days before young Hoppy walked out with full pockets. He won his own tournament that year. That was also the first year Denny Searcy cleaned out the Payball game for a telephone number. He did it again a year later. There was action on every table in that big poolroom for two solid weeks. I won (a couple of thou) and lost (a couple!) during my time there. Minimum bet was like 100 a game. Pro pool circa 1970's! I wrote a story about that tourney that was in my book as well.

A P.S. to the above. Walter Tevis (author of The Hustler and The Color of Money) covered that tourney for Sports Illustrated and wrote a long article about it. On page one he talked about my match with Jimmy Reid. I was so proud (even though I lost that match) that I've kept a copy all these years. He also met my mother who was 50 years old but still gorgeous. The story of their affair is told in my second book.

 

[jalapus logan]

Varner did not win a US Open 14.1 title. Varner’s ‘86 World 14.1 however was televised. He wore a pin striped purple suit that had coat tails. With his red-head afro, he looked unforgettable! Made me a big fan.

Someone please post an image of Nick from this event. Google won't fetch me an image of this and this thread deserves to see it.

 

[jalapus logan]

A P.S. to the above. Walter Tevis (author of The Hustler and The Color of Money) covered that tourney for Sports Illustrated and wrote a long article about it. On page one he talked about my match with Jimmy Reid. I was so proud (even though I lost that match) that I've kept a copy all these years. He also met my mother who was 50 years old but still gorgeous. The story of their affair is told in my second book.

I only saw Jimmy Reid play once late in his life at an early Derby City event at the executive inn way back when....he swished a four rail bank if I recall. I told him nice shot which he thanked me for. Based on comments, Jimmy Reid probably deserves a thread on AZB all his own. Wait, prolly is already one.

Anyway, back on track to this thread, since cue making apparently took Sigel away from competition, then how good were his cues? I've never seen one.

 

[WildWing]

Oliver Ortmann won in ‘89. I believe he beat Mizerak in the finals.

Oops, correct. Ortman won in 1989, Chicago. Yep, he beat Mizerak in the final. Horribly played by both. Happens to the best. Probably the most notable thing was Sigel running 150 on Rempe.

 

[sjm]

Oops, correct. Ortman won in 1989, Chicago. Yep, he beat Mizerak in the final. Horribly played by both. Happens to the best.

Happened again in the 1992 US Open. Sigel ran his 150 and out against Mike Zuglan on the night before the final, while Dallas West topped Mike Zuglan in two innings in the semifinal. We were all expecting a great match in the final, but neither Sigel nor West found his best and the final was a big letdown.

 

[WildWing]

Happened again in the 1992 US Open. Sigel ran his 150 and out against Mike Zuglan on the night before the final, while Dallas West topped Mike Zuglan in two innings in the semifinal. We were all expecting a great match in the final, but neither Sigel nor West found his best and the final was a big letdown.

True. The final very often is just not conducive to great play.

 

[flyvirginiaguy]

I posted this earlier. This is what's listed in Wikipedia for their World 14.1 titles:

Sigel won:
1979
1981
1988
2nd Place:
1980

Varner won:
1980
1986
2nd Place: 1981

They both would have in all likelihood won more. They did not have some of those tournaments for some time if I remember correctly.

 

[pt109]

Found one of my posts from 2016…….
Efren told Alex once....if he had to bet all his money on a player for one game..........
...he would choose Nick Varner.

I believe Efren felt Sigel was the best around American player....
...but he's still betting on Nicky for that one game.

I personally feel there were a bunch of better strokes out there.....
...but Varner, for tenacity and heart, may have been the best

 

[book collector]

You may have something there, but Towson, Maryland for Mike Sigel, and Owensboro, Kentucky for Nick Varner, are not exactly on opposite sides of the country. However, I get what you mean. Being a DC area resident for all this time, I saw a great deal of Mike Sigel, not so much of Nick Varner. Both were and are great all-around players. I just don't recall Varner finishing as high as Sigel in most tournaments.

I would agree, I think Sigel called it quits maybe a little earlier than Varner, certainly earlier than Strickland or Reyes. Cue making did take Sigel out a bit earlier. But I can't think of a World or U.S. Open straight pool tournament that Varner has won, whereas Sigel has several over the decades.

Not to digress, but the matchup I would have liked to see was a Mike Sigel in his prime, probably early 80s, against Luther Lassiter, probably about 1960 to 1965 or so. I saw both play in these timeframes, and believe me, it would have been close in who was better. I couldn't say. But, that's not ponderable.

I think the Pinoys and obviously Earl and Archer probably had more to do with Mike quitting than cue making. I wonder if he even made a cue? Did anyone ever see him actually turning a piece of wood? I 'm not saying he didn't, I am just very doubtful. AS ol'Lefty Johnson used to say, "I got's to see it with my own two eyeballs".

 

[WildWing]

I think the Pinoys and obviously Earl and Archer probably had more to do with Mike quitting than cue making. I wonder if he even made a cue? Did anyone ever see him actually turning a piece of wood? I 'm not saying he didn't, I am just very doubtful. AS ol'Lefty Johnson used to say, "I got's to see it with my own two eyeballs".

I saw Mike at the lathe when he worked with Joss Cues in Baltimore in the 70s. I have no trouble believing he did build cues in Florida.

 

[sjm]

I think the Pinoys and obviously Earl and Archer probably had more to do with Mike quitting than cue making. I wonder if he even made a cue? Did anyone ever see him actually turning a piece of wood? I 'm not saying he didn't, I am just very doubtful. AS ol'Lefty Johnson used to say, "I got's to see it with my own two eyeballs".

This is nonsense of the highest order. It can be argued that Mike was still the best player in the world when he hung up his cue in 1993. He did not hear any footsteps from players starting to come into their own as you suggest. Earl and Archer, and to a lesser extent Varner, began to dominate BECAUSE Mike retired. Of course, Varner's best year was 1989, when Mike was still in his top form.

Yes, he made cues and sold them for at least a couple of years.

 

[AtLarge]

... It can be argued that Mike was still the best player in the world when he hung up his cue in 1993. ...

I think he "retired" after winning the Bay State 9-Ball Shootout in Worcester, MA in April of 1994.

 

[sjm]

I think he "retired" after winning the Bay State 9-Ball Shootout in Worcester, MA in April of 1994.

Yes, but his last year playing a full slate of competition was 1992. Yes, he played a few events after that, but because he became a part-timer in 1993, most of us who followed his career closely consider him to have retired then.

 

[BasementDweller]

I think he "retired" after winning the Bay State 9-Ball Shootout in Worcester, MA in April of 1994.

Uh oh. In walks AtLarge. I'm nervous my vote may be nullified by facts.

This Sigel vs Varner issue may have occured before the dawn of the digital pool statistics guru.

 

[jay helfert]

Oliver turne

Oops, correct. Ortman won in 1989, Chicago. Yep, he beat Mizerak in the final. Horribly played by both. Happens to the best. Probably the most notable thing was Sigel running 150 on Rempe.

They turned it into a safety contest, with multiple 12-20 ball runs and then safe.

 

[WildWing]

They turned it into a safety contest, with multiple 12-20 ball runs and then safe.

Yes, and neither one got in rhythm at all. A shame since Mizerak played great against Sigel for example, and Ortmann played great against Bill Weenie Beenie Staton in earlier matches. Sometimes the final just doesn't measure up.