Archer vs. Sigel 1993 Accu Stats
- Thread starter westcoast
- Start date
Okay on Sigel vs Varner...
I would like nothing more than to really know what their head-to-head record was. There's no surprise that Sigel was the better of the two at 14.1, since he grew up right in the heart of 14.1 country. While Varner was a more Midwestern boy who I imagine played his fair share of 14.1, but rounded out his game with banks and one-pocket.
I've looked at their career achievements that are listed in Wikipedia (which look like a good starting point) and I wouldn't argue that Varner had the better career, but I would maybe argue that they were both monster freighters chugging along right past each other in the night. Of course they would anchor at the same port from time to time but they both moved a lot of cargo! Their achievements are quite comparable. I'd say Varner maybe had a little longer run but they were both pretty hot for almost 20 years.
The times were so different, I suspect that they weren't always even competing at the same time and place. In today's world, everybody knows about EVERY SINGLE tournament under the sun. Did they back then? How did these guys fill out their playing schedules? They obviously played a lot of the same majors but you wonder how many times they actually locked horns.
Would someone please get these two together for a podcast? I would love to hear them discuss their careers. They would maybe have to use a chess clock to keep it fair to Varner.
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Just went ahead and started new thread.
I would like nothing more than to really know what their head-to-head record was. There's no surprise that Sigel was the better of the two at 14.1, since he grew up right in the heart of 14.1 country. While Varner was a more Midwestern boy who I imagine played his fair share of 14.1, but rounded out his game with banks and one-pocket.
I've looked at their career achievements that are listed in Wikipedia (which look like a good starting point) and I wouldn't argue that Varner had the better career, but I would maybe argue that they were both monster freighters chugging along right past each other in the night. Of course they would anchor at the same port from time to time but they both moved a lot of cargo! Their achievements are quite comparable. I'd say Varner maybe had a little longer run but they were both pretty hot for almost 20 years.
The times were so different, I suspect that they weren't always even competing at the same time and place. In today's world, everybody knows about EVERY SINGLE tournament under the sun. Did they back then? How did these guys fill out their playing schedules? They obviously played a lot of the same majors but you wonder how many times they actually locked horns.
Would someone please get these two together for a podcast? I would love to hear them discuss their careers. They would maybe have to use a chess clock to keep it fair to Varner.
***Edit***
Just went ahead and started new thread.
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Just count them from the old “The Snap” magazines. But, Having grown up subscribed to them, I remember Mike’s name on the lists ALOT more than Nicks.
Also, Nick is on FB. Maybe someone wanting to know bad enough could ask him about their history/record.
I've heard a lot about Irish from many, and the feeling was that the legend was a little bigger than the man.
That said, he had a top gear that was hard to match and was a threat to beat any player in the world. I was told that his special sauce was that he could play his top speed on practically no sleep. This made him perfect for "ahead races."
I actually played Johnny Irish at the 7/11 a couple of times in the mid 1960's. He was a sixtyish bald headed small man, maybe 5'6 or 7. I didn't have any idea who he was, but he always asked me to play when I came in. He knew I was a $2 player back then but he didn't care. He wanted to win my $10 and he did a couple of times. Jersey Red finally told me that this old man was once the best player in New York. That made me feel good.
And that prompts me to tell you my friend about Mr. Tibbs. Tibbs was an old drunk who used to hang around Wink's Poolroom in Dayton, before it became Forest Park Billiards. He could usually be found sleeping in a chair, and Wink's was an all night joint so he could sleep there undisturbed for as long as he liked. Pappy Winkler never bothered him, probably out of respect for what he once was. Occasionally some young hustler would come in during the daytime looking for a cheap game. If none of our money players were around someone would wake up Mr. Tibbs. He would need a few minutes to wash his face and take a drink of water. Then he would grab a house cue stashed behind the counter and go play. No warm up, no nothing, just get up and play some $5 or $10 9-Ball. Then he would simply annihilate his young foe, running out effortlessly rack after rack on the oversized eight footers. Mr. Tibbs could play some pool! When sober of course.
When it was over he would get his cut and leave to buy a bottle, and maybe some food. He wouldn't return for several hours but when he did he just went and sat down in a chair and fell asleep. I never knew where he went or what he was drinking and he never appeared drunk and wobbly, just tired. I asked Deno Gounaris (the second best player in town after George Rood) if he ever played Mr. Tibbs. He said not anymore but when he was a kid he couldn't beat him.
Just another poolroom story. I loved that world.
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An article by R.A. Dyer in Billiards Digest says the 1961 event had 14 players, with Johnny Vevis (Vives) first, Jimmy Moore second, and Hubert Cokes third.I don't make this stuff up!
Rags died in 1960. The first Johnston City was in 1961 and was only a One Pocket tournament with sixteen players. "Connecticut" Johnny Vevis won it. I think he beat Marshall "Squirrel" Carpenter in the finals and Fats was third. Not 100% on that, but I know Johnny won.
Thanks for that. At least I got the winner right. I was guessing on the other two. Almost 100% sure that is the only one Fats played in. Maybe he was 4th.
I miss the ‘raw’ of 90s era 9 ball. Yes it was flawed, and everyone knew it, but that is one of the things that made it good. It was more GAME than sport. That has now changed, maybe.
I’ll say it until I’m blue in the face. The whole point is to string racks together. Changes made to dissuade this dig the game’s grave. Make longer races with shorter shot clocks. Not smaller pockets.
The gold crown. I’m forever a GC man. Looks of course… but it’s THAT sound. Intoxicating. The unmistakable pop a GC makes. It shoots an arrow tipped with despair at the poor sap occupying the electric chair.
it feels sterile now. Sterile table with ever shrinking pockets in an effort so everyone can have a turn. Europinazion of the game. No thanks.
A guy in dead punch firing in balls on table making THAT sound, over and over and over and over again while the other poor sap hasn’t shot at a ball in 20 minutes. Yes, please.
I’ll say it until I’m blue in the face. The whole point is to string racks together. Changes made to dissuade this dig the game’s grave. Make longer races with shorter shot clocks. Not smaller pockets.
The gold crown. I’m forever a GC man. Looks of course… but it’s THAT sound. Intoxicating. The unmistakable pop a GC makes. It shoots an arrow tipped with despair at the poor sap occupying the electric chair.
it feels sterile now. Sterile table with ever shrinking pockets in an effort so everyone can have a turn. Europinazion of the game. No thanks.
A guy in dead punch firing in balls on table making THAT sound, over and over and over and over again while the other poor sap hasn’t shot at a ball in 20 minutes. Yes, please.
I assume Red meant New York City. The best player in New York state during the prime of Johnny Irish was always Irving Crane.
yea he meant nyc. most just called n.y.c. new york as it was two different worlds.
and irving crane was certainly the best player from new york and one of the top three in the world probably.
but he wasnt ever in the conversation as he wasnt a gambler so much. and when people talk about best players they couldnt care less about a tournament player, as they do and idolize now.
maybe the best straight pool player that ever lived was mike euphemia. he wasnt much of a gambler but ran more balls than anyone alive.
no one hardly mentions him as one of the best players.
and irving crane was certainly the best player from new york and one of the top three in the world probably.
but he wasnt ever in the conversation as he wasnt a gambler so much. and when people talk about best players they couldnt care less about a tournament player, as they do and idolize now.
maybe the best straight pool player that ever lived was mike euphemia. he wasnt much of a gambler but ran more balls than anyone alive.
no one hardly mentions him as one of the best players.
Yes, onepocket.org has Fats finishing 4th. https://www.onepocket.org/FatsHOFpage.htm
During the match Grady talked about a guy named Tony that had a fake leg and you could win 10 or 15 thousand from.
I'm pretty sure that was Tony Cattuci (RIP) that owned a room called The Ball Room in Toms River N.J.,I hung out there and knew Tony well.
Grady and Tony were good friends and Grady would stop in once in a awhile.
I'm pretty sure that was Tony Cattuci (RIP) that owned a room called The Ball Room in Toms River N.J.,I hung out there and knew Tony well.
Grady and Tony were good friends and Grady would stop in once in a awhile.
I think Irish's real name was Johnny Lineen. He did play in a few of the big 14.1 tournaments back then and finished in the middle of the pack as I recall. He was a money player and focused on 9-Ball and One Pocket. The only big pool tournaments in the 30's, 40's and 50's were Straight Pool, and there were several of them each year. Sometime in the late 1950's a couple of Southern promoters (Gandy) put on a couple of 9-Ball and One Pocket events. Their success led to Johnston City in 1961, and the advent of the modern era in Pool.
It's important to remember that even at Johnston City, Straight Pool was one of the three disciplines. I'm pretty sure Eufemia won at least one of them. He was known as the greatest ever for low stakes like 150 points for $20. Once the bet got a little too high, his nerves betrayed him. Gene Nagy was another outstanding 14.1 player who could never handle the pressure of the big moment. He expected to never miss and if he did he would lose his composure. Nagy was most famous for being Jeanette Lee's mentor. A lot of people don't know how strong her 14.1 game was. She has run over 100 balls!
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i dont know much about irish but all the top guys said they wanted no part of him back then. and he was the best. when i saw him he was old and not hustling games. hung out some at 7 11
all the top players hung out at the golden cue in queens at times, and played straight pool 150 points for ten bucks. while i was in the corner playing 6 ball or one pocket for 20. margo, hopkins, miz, nagy, martin, ervolino, eufemia,onofrio laurie, mcgown, balabushka, etc. might be there on any given day
danny had moved to florida around then.
all the top players hung out at the golden cue in queens at times, and played straight pool 150 points for ten bucks. while i was in the corner playing 6 ball or one pocket for 20. margo, hopkins, miz, nagy, martin, ervolino, eufemia,onofrio laurie, mcgown, balabushka, etc. might be there on any given day
danny had moved to florida around then.
Here's an article from onepocket.org with a chart showing the winners of each discipline each year at Johnston City. Eufemia is not on the chart -- https://www.onepocket.org/JohnstonCity.htm.
But it looks like Eufemia did win the 14.1 event at the 1967 Stardust Open. Perhaps that's the one you are remembering -- https://onepocket.org/forum/index.php?threads/stardust-results.430067/#post-439922.
Yep!