Horizontal Draw

I can’t find it, but Neil’s Feijen included a really cool shot in one of his videos:

Same layout as Island; OB froze on 2nd diamond left long rail, CB middle table.

In this scenario the path to get back using 9 o’clock/outside/left/running side spin was blocked.

The solution was rail first with maximum 3 o’clock/inside/right/check side spin.

The contact with the OB sends the CB down the tangent line directly across the table to 2nd diamond on right side long rail and then the spin takes and comes back below the side pocket and even the string line on the left long rail if you really hit it pure. It is a super fun shot to practice every once in a while.
 
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Completely different shot.... rail nose compression before obj. ball contact.
All great players are very aware of this shot.
It's often used to create distance between cb and obj. ball.
As you get closer to the pocket the make percentage increases.
It's often a two way shot, often with more concern about where the cb will end up than the make of the obj. ball when pocket distance increases.
 
Right on.

You were talking about squirt and hitting the shot fuller with left spin bringing the CB back behind the tangent line.

This is looking at a thinner approach where the side spin, again, brings the CB back behind the tangent line.

In this scenario, the 3 o’clock/inside/right/check side spin becomes running spin after cushion contact. However, even with all those different things it can be called, I don’t think I would call it draw.
 
VarmintKong said:
Right on.

You were talking about squirt and hitting the shot fuller with left spin bringing the CB back behind the tangent line.

This is looking at a thinner approach where the side spin, again, brings the CB back behind the tangent line.

In this scenario, the 3 o’clock/inside/right/check side spin becomes running spin after cushion contact. However, even with all those different things it can be called, I don’t think I would call it draw.
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Squirt aspect/wording was brought up by Pool Camp... he just used different wording.
 
Island Drive said:
Squirt aspect/wording was brought up by Pool Camp... he just used different wording.
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Think that’s where we’re at. It’s an argument of semantics.

You’re an expert for sure and there’s a lot of knowledge by a great many experts here. What might be elucidating edification to some may be old hat to another audience.
 

DeeDeeCues said:
Correct? Side spin is the same as pure draw?

I've never had to spend more than a couple of minutes explaining how sidespin affects the angle a cueball comes off the rail. Anyone large enough to hold a pool cue already understands that a spinning ball will change direction when it hits something--everybody has already seen it in other activities. Saying something like the op said is only going to set the person's understanding back as long as they believe any part of it. We don't need to make things complicated in an effort to simplify. Attempting to be profound or clever is a good trait in a comedian, not in an instructor.
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NO....
It's another form of draw, pure draw is 6 o'clock, and pure draw lessens as you go upward towards 7 o'clock and so on.
When cue ball gets struck above the center of gravity.... follow starts occurring till 12 o'clock which it then becomes Pure Follow.
If you hit the cue ball straight into the cushion with 9 or 3 O'clock spin, the cloth on the rail nose grabs and changes cb direction just like pure draw does.
If you think of draw as only pure bottom 6 o'clock, it's nice to know there are other forms of draw, not all churning for 2 or three feet straight back.
 
VarmintKong said:
Think that’s where we’re at. It’s an argument of semantics.

You’re an expert for sure and there’s a lot of knowledge by a great many experts here. What might be elucidating edification to some may be old hat to another audience.
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If you listen to some of the European announcers, you'll hear em use the word/Gearing.
Any pure horizontal transfer of spin upon contact to an obj ball allows the shooter to hit the ball fuller and cause greater obj. ball direction change.
That's why as balls get dirtier during play, it allows the shooter to transfer more spin to the obj. ball to change it's direction.
 
Island Drive said:
NO....
It's another form of draw, pure draw is 6 o'clock, and pure draw lessens as you go upward towards 7 o'clock and so on.
When cue ball gets struck above the center of gravity.... follow starts occurring till 12 o'clock which it then becomes Pure Follow.
If you hit the cue ball straight into the cushion with 9 or 3 O'clock spin, the cloth on the rail nose grabs and changes cb direction just like pure draw does.
If you think of draw as only pure bottom 6 o'clock, it's nice to know there are other forms of draw, not all churning for 2 or three feet straight back.
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I think I'm following... maybe. I've heard it called check english (opposite of running english) or a kill shot/killed it off the rail by some people. Reverse english has been described to me as the opposite of running english. No idea if it's "proper" terminology but the idea is there. If I'm following, basically you can use side spin to "check" the rebound angle so it will do very similar to what straight pure 6 o'clock draw will do. It's basically a stun shot but the english checks/tightens the rebound angle to a large degree.
 
garczar said:
Glad i'm not the only one that often wonders just wtf he's talking about. Its almost like he out-AI's AI if that makes any fkn sense whatsoever. ;)
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You have no idea what you're talking about.

You're clueless about Bill's knowledge.

Totally clueless!!

You don't know what he's talking about cause you don't listen and question.
You already know everything there is to know about everything.
 
mr3cushion said:
All this conversation and no one can post an 'Accurate diagram' depicting the OP's thoughts!

Not even him!
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Probably:
ball is frozen somewhere on the long rail and you have a thin cut to the pocket

You can still get past the side and uptable by feathering it with copious outside.

Prolly be cake for a billiards player.
 
3kushn said:
You have no idea what you're talking about.

You're clueless about Bill's knowledge.

Totally clueless!!

You don't know what he's talking about cause you don't listen and question.
You already know everything.
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Well, 'I' Know what I'm talking about!

And there is NO way 3 O'clock or 9 O'clock can turn into 'Draw'! No matter what angle the CB goes into a cushion!

'Sidespin'/'Extreme Horizontal Axios of the CB' can 'Only produce' 'Running English or Reverse English' when it rebounds off the rail!
 
straightline said:
Probably:
ball is frozen somewhere on the long rail and you have a thin cut to the pocket

You can still get past the side and uptable by feathering it with copious outside.

Prolly be cake for a billiards player.
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All depends on the 'Angle of attack' into the 1st rail!

Top 3C players understand All aspects of effect on the CB and its reactions into the cushions!

Three cushion shots require 'Combinations of Sidespin' 95% of the time.
 
Tin Man said:
I was just trying to find a situation that would explain his original post.

This post has confused quite a few readers now and created some frustration because we can't seem to understand what Island is saying and it conflicts with what we know to be true about pool. Sidespin doesn't turn into draw.

If Island wants to demonstrate a frequently overlooked application of sidespin that can eliminate the need to apply draw by duplicating its effects, I am all for that. I tried to provide one such demonstration. There are many others. What is missing is the clarity and accuracy of the explanation.
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All this overthinking and hair splitting simply confuses the shit out of anyone but the most accomplished player. Kudos to Bill for what he tried to say, but newbies are bailing as we speak.
 
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