Men's 2025 World 8-Ball Championship, Bali, Oct.7-13

[pt109]

Exactly. 8ball on the bar box has some strategic play, but on the big tables, 8ball is a run-fest in which the first player to make a ball nearly always wins the rack.

There is no game that requires LESS strategy that big table 8ball. It is, quite simply, a breaking contest.

Playing "take what you make" and playing on 4" pockets might make it more interesting, but the World 8ball has aways been played with "choice after the break" and generous pockets.

I know a few good players playing 7 ahead 8-ball on a bar box….agree to move to a nine foot….they just kept running out on each other on the 7- foot.
And ‘take what you make’ was a deal breaker for me…it’s a game of skill….what’s next?….flip to see who shoots the next shot?
….room probably has a poker machine for that thinking.

 

[AtLarge]

... Out of curiosity, do you have a breakdown of the stats for later in the event (like are the stats for the quarters/semis/finals similar or significantly higher as the top players surface)?

Yes, I could go back and do that. But the number of matches streamed on the main table (or two) from the quarterfinals and later is, of course, small. For each of the last 2 years, for example, my stats each year included 2 of the 4 quarterfinal matches, both semifinal matches, and the finals -- just 5 matches. Stats for small numbers of games can sometimes be fairly unrepresentative of the norm for such measures. And most of the matches included in my stats for the big events are with top-notch players (as selected by the streamers, not by me).

But if you'd like to see any particular stat (as opposed to all of the ones I do) for those 5 matches each year, let me know. Here are the stats threads for those two World 8-Ball events:

2024: https://forums.azbilliards.com/thre...ld-8-ball-championship-september-2024.568232/​

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2023: https://forums.azbilliards.com/thre...orld-8-ball-championship-october-2023.558204/​

 

[sjm]

A bit of exaggeration there. From the streamed matches I watched in last year's World 8-Ball:

• The player who made the first ball after the break:​

- Won the game in that same inning 69% of the time (140 of 204)​

- Won the game in a later inning 7% of the time (15 of 204)​

- Lost the game 24% of the time (49 of 204)​

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And in 2023:

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• The player who made the first ball after the break:​

- Won the game in that same inning 73% of the time (186 of 254)​

- Won the game in a later inning 5% of the time (12 of 254)​

- Lost the game 22% of the time (56 of 254)​

I'd say these stats validate my claim. Over two years, the player who made the first ball won 353 racks out of 458 for a success rate of 77%, which is about seven out of every nine racks, quite a bit higher than one would expect in any other game played on a pool table.

For the most elite players, the success rate would be even higher than that. 8ball on the big tables is, indeed, a breaking contest, making it the least watchable game there is in our sport.

 

[markjames]

For the most elite players, the success rate would be even higher than that. 8ball on the big tables is, indeed, a breaking contest, making it the least watchable game there is in our sport.

but you have travelled the world to sit in the front row and watch the best players in the biggest matches for the last 40 years

amen to that and good for you

and your presence and appreciation and devotion and writing on the sport are an eloquent and invaluable asset that will always remain in the books of pool history and lore

but to the casual fan who plays mostly eight ball, not only is it watchable it is the most watchable

 

[sjm]

but you have travelled the world to sit in the front row and watch the best players in the biggest matches for the last 40 years

amen to that and good for you

and your presence and appreciation and devotion and writing on the sport are an eloquent and invaluable asset that will always remain in the books of pool history and lore

but to the casual fan who plays mostly eight ball, not only is it watchable it is the most watchable

Thanks for those very kind words.

I agree with what you say, but there have been two distinct attempts to make 8ball the primary pro game in America. The first, and most obvious. is the IPT of 2006, which collapsed under its own financial weight in its first year. The second was Darren Appleton's World Pool Series, circa 2016, which also didn't catch on and it eventually abandoned 8ball before ultimately folding.

Hence, while your intuition and mine seem to suggest that the pool viewing public prefers 8ball, there is little corroborating evidence that it is what they prefer to watch.

 

[skogstokig]

I'd say these stats validate my claim. Over two years, the player who made the first ball won 353 racks out of 458 for a success rate of 77%, which is about seven out of every nine racks, quite a bit higher than one would expect in any other game played on a pool table.

For the most elite players, the success rate would be even higher than that. 8ball on the big tables is, indeed, a breaking contest, making it the least watchable game there is in our sport.

both of those events were racked with predator's triangle rack and always have slug racks, so run out from first ball is indeed a better measure

on a more positive note it's cool that a big time event is in a new territory, indonesia