Controversial Non-Call of WRONG-BALL-HIT-FIRST FOUL - Hanoi Open - Capito vs. Lechner Quarter Final

[JPB2]

This call was a little tough to make live; but after careful instant-replay video review (with multiple views available), they should have gotten the call right.

I did not research every possible rule, but I did look at the WPA rules, the WPA rule regulations, and WNT rules. I will posit that no instant replay is allowed. Why? Because there is no rule for it. Video replay is allowed when an area referee did not see a shot. There does not appear to be a corresponding rule for a refereed match. (WPA Rules). If I am incorrect I am happy to be shown the rule. If it’s going to be used a brief rule should allow it and set forth the procedure IMO.

I also see more and more Fran’s wisdom of not allowing a player to call a foul on themselves in a reffed match. Counterintuitive at first maybe, but a player who benefits from a ref blowing the call should not have to answer for a lack of integrity.

 

[GideonF]

all us pretty 'good players' say thanks for the backhanded cheap shot. if i was the ref here i would have called it good. guess i'm just not the poindexter type. i've been called in a gillion times over the yrs. to call a shot and i've never had one complaint and i didn't know a fkng thing about tangent lines. guess i'm just a born natural ref who either never got it wrong or the players were as clueless as i was.

I have had players (and sometimes a TD) watch shots and clearly get the call wrong. I have never complained to them - if you call a ref you have to live with their decision whether it’s right or wrong.

So I wouldn’t be so sure no one ever thought you got it wrong. Based on your comments on this post, I would respectfully never ask you to watch this type of shot.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I did not research every possible rule, but I did look at the WPA rules, the WPA rule regulations, and WNT rules. I will posit that no instant replay is allowed. Why? Because there is no rule for it. Video replay is allowed when an area referee did not see a shot. There does not appear to be a corresponding rule for a refereed match. (WPA Rules). If I am incorrect I am happy to be shown the rule. If it’s going to be used a brief rule should allow it and set forth the procedure IMO.

I also see more and more Fran’s wisdom of not allowing a player to call a foul on themselves in a reffed match. Counterintuitive at first maybe, but a player who benefits from a ref blowing the call should not have to answer for a lack of integrity.

This a good point, and maybe explains it. Perhaps "instant replay" is not allowed, and only the ref's immediate call can be used?

And/or, if instant replay IS allowed, maybe the ref's "protocol" is to only use it for stop motion ball contact, and not CB/OB paths.

We'd need first hand knowledge of the ref's protocol to know this.

If this is the case, it's actually way better than the ref blowing this call AFTER viewing the video replay.

 

[sjm]

Regardless of the letter of the law, there is precedent for this kind of video review when the presiding referee is unsure of the call. The most famous case was when a close hit call was reviewed in the Peach vs Bustamante World 9-ball semifinal. It erased what would have been a match-ending shot by Bustamante and Peach went on to win the match and the World 9ball championship.

Video review, while uncommon, is part of the game, as are other things not found explicitly in the rules. All the credit to those who elected to review this at the Hanoi Open, but the ruling made was absurdity itself.

 

[GideonF]

I also see more and more Fran’s wisdom of not allowing a player to call a foul on themselves in a reffed match. Counterintuitive at first maybe, but a player who benefits from a ref blowing the call should not have to answer for a lack of integrity.

I strongly disagree with this. I think we need a cutlure shift in pool. In snooker, pros routinely call fouls on themselves even with a ref standing right there - double hits, feathering the CB, touching another ball. Or telling the ref to move the CB to a worse position on a foul and miss.

Indeed, in a smiliar situation to the Capito one, I recently saw a pro ask the referee to look at a replay to make sure he had hit the colour and not a red (or vice versa, I don’t remember). As it happens, the hit was good but he wanted to make sure he didn’t benefit from a missed foul.

It’s not like other sports where the ref’s decision is judgment (eg what is a foul in football or basketball).

 

[Bob Jewett]

This a good point, and maybe explains it. Perhaps "instant replay" is not allowed, and only the ref's immediate call can be used?

And/or, if instant replay IS allowed, maybe the ref's "protocol" is to only use it for stop motion ball contact, and not CB/OB paths.

We'd need first hand knowledge of the ref's protocol to know this.

If this is the case, it's actually way better than the ref blowing this call AFTER viewing the video replay.

Well, it may not be explicitly allowed in a refereed match, but the WPA regulations say for an unrefereed match, if there is a dispute between the players as to what happened, the ref is empowered to use all available resources to come to the best decision, including video review.

It may be better to leave the procedure up to the event organizer, but my inclination is to use video when available. I know I have made at least one bad call that could have been corrected if video had been available. The player shot quickly along an unexpected line.