The best non-pro player ever?

Jay, nice story about The Gun beating Whitey. But I can assure you they weren't playing even and maybe even something like 8/5 and the breaks. Whitey's wife was an attorney in Tacoma and they had a beautiful daughter. I knew Whitey well and he'd invite me over to dinner. I couldn't keep my eyes off his daughter and Whitey told me to back off and I did. He owned about three poolrooms in the Tacoma area and had the Valley Pool Table Franchise for Oregon, Washington and Idaho during that time early 60's until maybe early 70's. I could go on and on about Whitey stories but suffice it to say, he loved road players and many times helped them out. He committed suicide in the early 90's? I don't know what the circumstances were. His one road trip to LA ended up with him playing Rags Woods 14.1 at the old Tournament Billiards. In that room he won all the cash playing craps. His dice were pretty awesome.

As a part time pool player, he could get the job done. That hesitation/pause stroke of his made lots of players think he had no game.
 
Jay, nice story about The Gun beating Whitey. But I can assure you they weren't playing even and maybe even something like 8/5 and the breaks. Whitey's wife was an attorney in Tacoma and they had a beautiful daughter. I knew Whitey well and he'd invite me over to dinner. I couldn't keep my eyes off his daughter and Whitey told me to back off and I did. He owned about three poolrooms in the Tacoma area and had the Valley Pool Table Franchise for Oregon, Washington and Idaho during that time early 60's until maybe early 70's. I could go on and on about Whitey stories but suffice it to say, he loved road players and many times helped them out. He committed suicide in the early 90's? I don't know what the circumstances were. His one road trip to LA ended up with him playing Rags Woods 14.1 at the old Tournament Billiards. In that room he won all the cash playing craps. His dice were pretty awesome.

As a part time pool player, he could get the job done. That hesitation/pause stroke of his made lots of players think he had no game.
Do you have any idea how good Peter played?
 
A few come to mind

Obviously Don Willis
Cooney but did anyone really know his top level in 9 ball

Surprised no one mentioned
Greg Stevens
Tommy Sanders

I think Tadd was playing a good as anyone for a few years
Tommy Sanders still plays well. I always enjoy seeing him when he comes to town.

A couple years ago he was playing in the Texas Open. He drew Roberto Gomez. No idea on score but Roberto won. After the match, Roberto was outside and said who the F is that guy?!?!?
 
Landon Shuffet. Good enough to play pro. Smart enough not to.
The best

No question in my mind that Landon could have turned pro and won some major events, very possibly risen to the top, number one in the world. Having the good sense not to chase that long shot for anybody or pursue that lifestyle was more impressive than his playing skill.

I can't quite recall the name of Joe Villalpando's student that came in second to Landon a few times in the Juniors. Another lad with world class potential and better judgement than to pursue it. Brother to Adam "sleeve" Benko? and Ryan. That last name isn't quite right I think. Regardless, the youngest was the best I believe but I never heard of him going out into the pool world.

Hu
 
No question in my mind that Landon could have turned pro and won some major events, very possibly risen to the top, number one in the world. Having the good sense not to chase that long shot for anybody or pursue that lifestyle was more impressive than his playing skill.

I can't quite recall the name of Joe Villalpando's student that came in second to Landon a few times in the Juniors. Another lad with world class potential and better judgement than to pursue it. Brother to Adam "sleeve" Benko? and Ryan. That last name isn't quite right I think. Regardless, the youngest was the best I believe but I never heard of him going out into the pool world.

Hu
Crockett?
 
Adam Behnke.

I think that last name is right, closer than I was for sure! I think Adam is the oldest son. I was talking about the youngest playing Landon. Pretty sure he came in second to Landon's first place at least one year. Ryan I think is in the middle, can't remember the youngest one's first name at all.

Hu
 
there were tons of them. but the best of them were the so called pro's. really just as now the very top pros will destroy any of the unknowns.

those unknowns mostly beat the top road players only on home court on favorite table. or on occasion on the road and that's the times people remember and talk about.

pool is a self employed business. and the measure of success is making more money than others and keeping it.

if they don't then no matter who they beat they are just another failure.
 
there were tons of them. but the best of them were the so called pro's. really just as now the very top pros will destroy any of the unknowns.

those unknowns mostly beat the top road players only on home court on favorite table. or on occasion on the road and that's the times people remember and talk about.

pool is a self employed business. and the measure of success is making more money than others and keeping it.

if they don't then no matter who they beat they are just another failure.

A lot of truth to what you say. Who wants to be famous when it bites into your cash? A very small example, I took off a known shortstop in Greenway a couple times about six months apart. Each time it cost me somewhere around $1000-$2000. I would be in that area which was a hotbed of low stakes gambling and quietly plying my trade when somebody would dime me out to my opponent. "I saw him beat so and so in Greenway." Part of it was who I played, part was how much I played for. Both marked me as outside of their league whether I was or not. I played regularly at a place five miles away and played for fifty a game several times a week. Differences were I wasn't playing somebody known and I wasn't doing it in Greenway.

One road player came in the bar with a covered sales pad in hand, ordered a drink, and sat down doing paperwork where he could scout the tables. No fuss, no muss, a pretty solid cover. Just a traveling salesman passing through town a few days.

We will never know the names of most of the road players quietly plying their trade. The best ones weren't known, still aren't.

Hu
 
in the action areas i got a list of all the gamblers from worst to best. and played only them in that order. this way i could always say X and i play even all the time. if you beat someone up above, you lose most action most times from those below his speed.

problem is you have to basically move into town and camp out to get it all.

that's why most road players just try to take off the best player in that area and side bet with the crowd then move on.
problem is often the best player beats them.
 
in the action areas i got a list of all the gamblers from worst to best. and played only them in that order. this way i could always say X and i play even all the time. if you beat someone up above, you lose most action most times from those below his speed.

problem is you have to basically move into town and camp out to get it all.

that's why most road players just try to take off the best player in that area and side bet with the crowd then move on.
problem is often the best player beats them.
Shit happens.
 
Here is a picture of Artie with some other good players I copied from OnePocket.org.
IMG_2864.jpeg
 
in the action areas i got a list of all the gamblers from worst to best. and played only them in that order. this way i could always say X and i play even all the time. if you beat someone up above, you lose most action most times from those below his speed.

problem is you have to basically move into town and camp out to get it all.

that's why most road players just try to take off the best player in that area and side bet with the crowd then move on.
problem is often the best player beats them.
I was the worst hustler in the world. I wanted to play pool so badly every day that I would just walk in and go to the counter and tell them I was looking for a game. That way I usually got a game really fast. Most of the time I was playing the best player in the house at that moment. Often the best player(s) in that area might not be there right then. In those days with so many poolrooms there were also many places with no real strong players. I'd say 80-90% of the time it was someone I could handle. 10-20% of the time it may have been a tough game. I would give it a try anyway, and grind with the guy hoping he would fade. If not and he got me stuck I just quit. If I won, which was most of the time, they would find someone else for me to play. That's when the games got tougher. If a guy was just too strong at 9-Ball I might quit (a little loser) and ask him to play some more One Pocket or Bank Pool. If they agreed (almost always One Pocket) I would try that. I turned that tables on a few guys that way. Only a few times did anyone ever want to play Banks. The only ones who ever beat me back then at Banks were Youngblood and Billy Johnson (Wade Crane).

I rarely stayed around longer than that day. My M.O. was to look for new places to play all the time. Even in the SoCal area there were over 300 poolrooms in a 50 mile radius. I went everywhere to every neightborhood; black, latino, asian, you name it. If I saw a billiards or pool sign I stopped! Plus there were thousands of bars where you could play dollar or two Eight Ball all night. Like I said, I wanted to play pool and not sit around scouting the action (only if I saw a money game in progress) and wait for a game. If I couldn't find a game quick enough I just got in my car and moved on. Sometimes someone in the poolroom would steer me to where I could find a game, and I would go there next.

I was undoubtedly the world's worst pool hustler and never considered myself a hustler. I never laid down on a game, always trying to win from the get go and never stalling to raise the bet. I found out a couple of times when I was advised to stall that I just got myself out of stroke. I did consider myself a pool player and when I was on the Mike Douglas TV show he asked me that exact question, "Were you a pool hustler?" and I said no I was a pool player because I never hustled anyone. A couple of times guys got mad when I beat them out of a few dollars and called me a hustler. I reminded then that I did not stall on them and did nothing to hustle them. I played my best pool right from the start. Many times I was asked at the counter if I was a good player and my response was that I played okay. I didn't try to lie to anyone.

I almost always played even, rarely asking for weight, except from a known player. And just as rarely giving up weight (so many times in a strange poolroom guys automatically asked for the eight ball because I was coming in off the street and looking for a game). I had a little speech I used, saying we both have two arms and legs and you don't know me and I don't know you, so let's just start out even and see how it goes. You'd be surprised how many times my little speech worked.

It's fun for me to remember my life from decades ago. I guess I was pretty fearless then. I felt like I could play good enough to protect myself. If someone was too strong a player for me they would have to show it! A couple of times I got hustled and a very good player stalled with me and let me get him stuck a few games. I could smell it when they kept asking to raise the bet. I would quit when they got even and they were usually pissed about that.
 
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The most successful "under the radar" player during my lifetime was Jack Cooney. He never showed his face at a pool tourney until he was in his 50's, and even then he did not play in the tournament proper. He only came to gamble! Jack won far more money than any of the "pro" players of his era. They were in awe of him and spoke often of his successful scores. How undercover was he? More than half of the pro players did not even know what he looked like. They only knew him by name.
Jay, that one pocket.match with James Walden for 100k I believe lasted four days
The most successful "under the radar" player during my lifetime was Jack Cooney. He never showed his face at a pool tourney until he was in his 50's, and even then he did not play in the tournament proper. He only came to gamble! Jack won far more money than any of the "pro" players of his era. They were in awe of him and spoke often of his successful scores. How undercover was he? More than half of the pro players did not even know what he looked like. They only knew him by name.
How about that four day one pocket match with James Walden for 100k I believe as an example of the skill and endurance Cooney had to take it down? Walden was another 'non pro" player who didn't play tournaments and played at a high level gambling.
 
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