The best non-pro player ever?

Maybe we can also look at do they go to the hall just to hit some balls, or just for action?

The person who goes and practices considers it a hobby, the person who waits for action to come in maybe not so much.


It has been said that a number of pro players have "day jobs" as well, therefore changing one's definition. I look at it this way. Someone like Mike Dechaine, who has a full time job, plays at a pro level. I mainly look at the level of play vs where they get their income.
 
APA amateur rules: https://poolplayers.com/us-amateur-championship/rules/ Rule #9. He is in the insurance business and plays as a hobby.
Here is Rule 9. I believe it says that the APA can disqualify anyone they choose to. The "majority of one’s income" clause is just one example of a "professional characteristic" that is or may be a disqualifier.

Professional players are not allowed to participate in the U.S. Amateur Championship. APA will consult with several professional tours concerning the status of any player. In addition, players who possess professional characteristics will not be allowed to participate. Professional characteristics include, but are not limited to: making the majority of one’s income giving exhibitions, giving lessons or playing pool. Please contact the APA if you think there is any possibility that you possess professional characteristics.
APA has a nationwide network of representatives and maintains a list of professional players throughout the country. APA intends to check the amateur status according to the above guidelines on every entrant into the U.S. Amateur Championship. Those entrants found to be in violation will be consulted and given an opportunity to appeal; however, APA has the final authority to make the judgment. Entry fees for those entrants found to be in violation will not be refunded.
 
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APA amateur rules: https://poolplayers.com/us-amateur-championship/rules/ Rule #9. He is in the insurance business and plays as a hobby.

Sounds like we are gonna need a little audit to see who sells the APA its insurances. :eek:

i don't think his eligibility is necessarily supported by #9:

Professional players are not allowed to participate in the U.S. Amateur Championship. APA will consult with several professional tours concerning the status of any player. In addition, players who possess professional characteristics will not be allowed to participate. Professional characteristics include, but are not limited to: making the majority of one’s income giving exhibitions, giving lessons or playing pool. Please contact the APA if you think there is any possibility that you possess professional characteristics.
APA has a nationwide network of representatives and maintains a list of professional players throughout the country. APA intends to check the amateur status according to the above guidelines on every entrant into the U.S. Amateur Championship. Those entrants found to be in violation will be consulted and given an opportunity to appeal; however, APA has the final authority to make the judgment. Entry fees for those entrants found to be in violation will not be refunded.
 
The two that come to my mind are Hawaiian Brian and Jack Cooney. I had to laugh that Cooney would ask for weight from top players. He was a money maker. Brian reminded me of Parica.
 
The two that come to my mind are Hawaiian Brian and Jack Cooney. I had to laugh that Cooney would ask for weight from top players. He was a money maker. Brian reminded me of Parica.
I'd consider Brian a pro for sure. Until he opened his room playing/gambling is how he made $$. He didn't play for fun.
 
I'd consider Brian a pro for sure. Until he opened his room playing/gambling is how he made $$. He didn't play for fun.

I didn't know if he played in tournaments for cash, thought he just traveled around and played all comers.
 
I didn't know if he played in tournaments for cash, thought he just traveled around and played all comers.
Pro doesn't mean tournaments. If you do something for a living that is your "profession". Brian was a top road player who made his living with his cue.
 
I didn't know if he played in tournaments for cash, thought he just traveled around and played all comers.

Brian did both, but he was best at the gambling aspect of pro pool. He matched up good and played even better. It took a world champion to bring him down and Brian was smart enough not to play these guys, unless they wanted to give up a little weight. If they did they were usually in big trouble. Brian and Jack actually ran around together a few times when it could be mutually beneficial.
 
I don’t know that Id agree with the definition of a professional pool player being “one who makes the majority of their money playing pool; or someone who gambles every time they play pool”. I definitely think there’s a line that has to be crossed in order to be of a professional stature/skill level. I’m a hobby player and could beat a good number of people who’ll only play if they’re in action/make a good portion of their money from action. And I know I’m nowhere near “pro level skills” because I can’t string together 3-5 break and runs of 10ball consistently on a tight 9’ diamond. Knowledge of how to make money by strategically setting up games, knowing how to read your opponent before you play them, or knowing how to just straight up trick someone would all be valuable assets to any pool player; but would any of those things be enough to overtake the skill of a high caliber player?
 
I don’t know that Id agree with the definition of a professional pool player being “one who makes the majority of their money playing pool; or someone who gambles every time they play pool”. I definitely think there’s a line that has to be crossed in order to be of a professional stature/skill level. I’m a hobby player and could beat a good number of people who’ll only play if they’re in action/make a good portion of their money from action. And I know I’m nowhere near “pro level skills” because I can’t string together 3-5 break and runs of 10ball consistently on a tight 9’ diamond. Knowledge of how to make money by strategically setting up games, knowing how to read your opponent before you play them, or knowing how to just straight up trick someone would all be valuable assets to any pool player; but would any of those things be enough to overtake the skill of a high caliber player?
To make your living at pool requires skill at the game itself and if one gambles, the ability to match-up well. I've known a lot of players over the years that didn't play "champion" level pool but they made a decent living playing. Matching up well is NOT trickery, its an art form. You always try to get the best advantage possible. I keep going back to the definition: a profession is what you do for a living. If you have a job/art/skill that pays the bills then that is your profession.
 
Luther Lassiter said if he had to pick someone to play for his life it would be Don Willis so I'll go with Don Willis.
 
I would say Mitch Ellerman. Even though he's taught, gambled and played tournaments, his income has always primarily been day jobs. I think he's worked delivering medical supplies, a press operator and an electrician's apprentice, and yet missed making the Mosconi cup by the very last elimination. He's also won the World's Eight Ball Barbox Championships. He's beaten the likes of Scott Frost, Dennis Orcullo, and SVB, just to name a few.
 
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This post equates to a discussion of asking what defines a pro, a question which will never be agreed upon. Is it primary income? Playing ability? Tournaments entered? Events cashed? Ranking, and by which rankings? Etc.

Since it is entirely arbitrary I say that the level of pro versus non-pro is based on ability, and the line is set at exactly my level of play.

Now I just have to decide...do I want to consider myself the best 'non-pro' in the world, or would I rather consider myself the most wretched professional that has ever picked up a cue in the history of pool? Hmmm....
 
I'm actually surprised that no one has mentioned......ME!

People say I could have gone pro. I got a full ride to college but blew out my rotator cuff trying a behind the back jump shot with my regular cue. My horse at the time, Big Bucks Bobby Belkworth told me to play safe...don't attempt a behind the back shot like that, especially with a regular cue!!!

Well, you know the story, I was young, dumb and full of piss and vinegar. As soon as I jumped, I felt the cuff tear and it sent pain down to my finger tips. I knew from that moment, my career might be over.

As fate would have it, I did manage to leave it safe. I was playing against a short fellow with curly hair who went by the name of Cool Hand. He spent more time smoking than playing. Well, he tried a 3 rail kick, he missed and I took it down, with much pain. After the match he admitted that he had some work to do on his game and I suggested that he take up chewing gum instead of smoking and he said "sure thing"

After that day I realized that I had to find a real job like the rest of the bums out there. I tried selling cars and vacuum cleaners...not at the same time though. It seemed like everything I did took me back to those smokey rooms where the beer was cool and the ladies smelled like cooked cabbage and stale PBR.

I was in a room one afternoon when when I heard THAT sound. The sound of crashing balls that sent an echo throughout the room that seemed to make everyone stop and stare. I didn't want to turn around because I knew a PLAYER was in the room. I didn't want to be drug back into a game that almost literally took my right arm.

After another crushing break of balls, I couldn't stand it any longer and finally turned around and saw a large fellow with a bit of a beer gut who resembled Grizzly Adams. I can't remember his name now but it was something like Shooter or Shotgun or Rifleman.

He asked me if I wanted a game for which I said "no thanks ol' timer, the game has past me by" I told him that I had not seen him around these parts before and asked what he was doing here. He told me he was looking for action against a one time legend named Bic D. I told him that I had heard of Bic D before but thought he retired from the game years ago as a result of an old billiard injury.

The man looked dejected so I said..."I'll tell ya what ol' timer, I play ya a race to 3 just for funzies, okay" He said, sure thing.

I broke and ran a 3 pack and was walking out the door when the ol' timer said..,."Thanks for the lesson..... Bic D. I said...sure thing.

You only left out the parts where you knocked out some tush hog with one punch, and broke a thousand cherries. Don't you know nothing about pool player stories? :)
 
funny and somebody in the running

I have to laugh at the definitions of "pro"! When things got bad in the oil patch I paid my bills and ate off of pool tables. Never went hungry, never a late note or bill! Nobody would ever mistake me for a pro. Somebody in a bar did call me a pool player one time though. It was funny, he made it sound a lot like child molester, slime under a rock!

A favorite of mine came out of the bushes for the IPT like a lot of people, Dave Matlock. A short track specialist but where other people talk about running packs, his best was a case and change!

The best nonpro is probably like the Lone Ranger. He plays just good enough to get the cheese then disappears into the night.

Hu
 
I've hear quite a bit about Don Willis.

But, for me, "Cigar" Tom Vanover from Baltimore is the best.

All the best,
WW
 
Luther Lassiter said if he had to pick someone to play for his life it would be Don Willis so I'll go with Don Willis.
I think the non-pro criteria would eliminate Don from the discussion, but the OP clearly does not.
 
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