Yes.
If he hasn't played much of the other games, it would not be surprising to see him underperform his Fargo Rating.
Yes.
I don't understand this.
(Un)Popular Opinion on Fargo Rate
- Thread starter kollegedave
- Start date
Yes.
I don't understand this.
Robustness is simply games played.If you're on a island with only two other players how does anyone get a robustness???
Are you always an ass?
Make your own rating system since you're so smart. I wouldn't answer a single question from your condescending know it all ass
If you're on a island with only two other players how does anyone get a robustness???
There's nothing else to do on the island. They play a lot of pool.
Indeed!
This weekend, I played the 537 in 2 races.
Race to 10, 8 ball. I won 10-3
Race to 5, 10 ball: I won 5-4
I went, as a preliminary Fargo, from 433 to 468 with a robustness of 154. The 537 dropped to a 534 (-3) but the most interesting thing was the 505 went to 523 without playing one game.
The island is interesting…
This weekend, I played the 537 in 2 races.
Race to 10, 8 ball. I won 10-3
Race to 5, 10 ball: I won 5-4
I went, as a preliminary Fargo, from 433 to 468 with a robustness of 154. The 537 dropped to a 534 (-3) but the most interesting thing was the 505 went to 523 without playing one game.
The island is interesting…
Wayne Crimi
Active member
It would be really nice if the data was downloadable to a spreadsheet or if there was an inquiry function so we could slice and dice the ratings and track ups/downs, improvement, put more weight on recent games for young players who may be improving rapidly, look at 500 or 1000 game chunks etc.. The ratings are great, but I'd also like to do a subjective analysis.
I've always been amazed at how accurate the Fargo ratings tend to be in determining a winner.
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Thank you for returning the thread towards its original topic.
Personally, I find the accuracy of FargoRate to be something that has taken away some of the things I used to enjoy about pool, because it's so good at predicting the winner.
kollegedave
There is Fargo, one jaw of the vise, and commercial leagues with their "must be equal" handicaps the other jaw of the vise. Amateur players squeezed hard in that vice...
Wayne Crimi
Active member
Earlier in the thread I was making the case that IMHO Fargo Ratings don't adjust fast enough to new information and should be tweaked slightly to weigh a player's most recent performances a little heavier (more like chess ratings). It wouldn't require a huge change, just a tweak. As part of that I was making the case that Yapp should have been rated higher after his series of tournamant wins last year and that I would take him over several players ranked higher at even money. Now that's he's world 8 ball champion does anyone still think he's the 10th best player in the world?
While I believe you are correct that Fargo can be a lagging indicator (and it most often shows up in rapidly-developing players, like top juniors), I think it has to be formulated to be the most accurate across the population. Pool as an element of luck in it, and so a player, playing at the same sill level, can go on both hot and cold runs that last longer than most might believe. A roll here or there can turn a 10-9 win into a 10-9 defeat or vice-versa, which might be the difference of winning a tournament vs placing a forgettable 3/4th.
All that is to say that Yapp is clearly one of the top players in the world, and capable of winning any event he enters. But is he the best just because he's had a string of tournament successes? FSR had his hot string a few years ago, and is also one of the top players in the world. How much has he won since then? Shaw can run 800+ balls in straight pool. Should he rank higher? For that matter, how about Schmidt?
If the rating adapts too slowly, it can underrate players, sure, but if it adapts too quickly then it will overrate players and will be nothing more than a "hot indicator" of sorts--letting us know who has the most recent success. To be most valuable, it needs to take as much information into account as possible and weight each of those pieces of information as best as possible to be as accurate as possible. Overreacting to a few tournament wins that span a few hundred racks would, I believe, run counter to that goal.
Which of the players rated higher than Yapp would you take Yapp in a long race? Let's exclude Ameer Ali and his 650-odd robustness, who keeps dropping every few months when another couple dozen games get added in. I would absolutely still take Filler and Gorst and either Ko and SVB. Probably FSR. I'd also take any of those guys to win the next tournament over Yapp, although, of course, it's close. So to me, he seems correctly rated.
If you want a more dynamic ranking system look at money won. That will tell you who's been hottest at the right time in recent tournaments. Fargo, and/or any broader rating system, should specifically not be blinded by short-term success and look beyond it in order to correctly provide the deeper insights that recent tournament successes can obfuscate.
(None of this is to say that I believe Fargo is 100% perfect in how it's formulated, just that I believe its current form is better than trying to initiate a more reactionary and short-sighted system.)
It ruined handicapping pool, fortunately, there are plenty of idiots that don't understand simple math
How did it ruin Handicapping? Isn't that a derivative of fr?
I don't think you're wrong. I think that the biggest mistake that people make is to treat fargo rate like something that it isn't. It is NOT a measure of skill. It is merely a measure of competitive ability. I think also that it has it's short comings in comparing top ranked players and amateurs as the way the game (with fargo) is played is drastically different between amateur events and open events. At the amateur level you're going to have mostly handicapped tournaments which will limit the accuracy of the better amateurs versus the not so better amateurs. Unless the better amateurs are competing in open tourneys against much better players it is more difficult for them to move up because of this.
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The idea is that if you keep careful track of the players, you can make better bets than the casual fan/bettor. With FargoRate, all the data is right there for everyone.
Since you made that earlier post (August 2025), Yapp has played 820 games. And his performance overall for the last 8 months has been about where we expect it.
A year ago, Yapp's rating was behind Biado, Shaw, and Kaci. Now he is above them and essentially on a par with Chua. That is the system's response to a good year.
Again, these numbers are interesting, but they contain a lot of noise. If you want a better predictor of the next 8 months, use the Fargo Rating
The player most strongly outrunning his rating is Quoc Hoang Duong
But how much did Quoc"s FR change in that time period ?
You had to know this question was coming?
All somebody has to do is look up FR now, takes all the knowledge out of it for everybody
Contrary to the OPs post, I couldn’t be happier to see participation trophy wins disappearing, as well as excuses for not cashing out because of anything other than your ability to play to the highest level.
I can’t wait for pool to turn into a white collar activity like tennis or golf, and finally be rid of the jersey-wearers and negative energy.
I can’t wait for pool to turn into a white collar activity like tennis or golf, and finally be rid of the jersey-wearers and negative energy.