SVB v. Fedor Gorst

Alternate Break ?? The original post about for this match stated- "alternate break." When did it change, and who made the decision to change it?

The cut break/template/pocketing 1 ball in the side thing, has reached a point now where the breaking player waves their hand in apology for pocketing anything other than the 1 ball on the break. If these rules are the standard and not flexible(with Matchroom or, any other organization) at least stick with Alternate break. Obviously, not my show or production. Just throwing out ideas and welcome others thoughts.

P. S.- See markjames post #100. I'm also interested in options with this idea of moving the 1 ball
 
sjm said:
Shane's best pool was played from 2011-2016. I don't think the Shane of that period was any better than the Shane of today. Shane plays as well as he ever has. The difference is that the level has risen so much in the past ten years, to a large extent due to the continuing globalization of the game. The level will rise again greatly over the next ten years and, yes, somebody that plays better than Filler will probably emerge at some point. It's the natural
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sjm said:
Shane's best pool was played from 2011-2016. I don't think the Shane of that period was any better than the Shane of today. Shane plays as well as he ever has. The difference is that the level has risen so much in the past ten years, to a large extent due to the continuing globalization of the game. The level will rise again greatly over the next ten years and, yes, somebody that plays better than Filler will probably emerge at some point. It's the natural flow of things.
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In my opinion, he was better than he is now in his late 20s and early 30s. But that’s my opinion I could be wrong. I think the gap between him filler and Gorst would be smaller during that time. Also, some say that no one has ever played like filler and Gorst. I believe DENNIS orcollo was playing like this 10-12 years ago.
 
They changed 9 ball pool because a handful of players including SVB dominated the 1 on the spot 9 ball break.

I watch the current break with the cueball slashing back and forth accross the table and think how uncontrolled it looks. The biggest package in this was a 3 pack. I'm a donkey and would run a 3 pack or better in a rack to 50 with the standard break.
 
sjm said:
Shane's best pool was played from 2011-2016. I don't think the Shane of that period was any better than the Shane of today. Shane plays as well as he ever has. The difference is that the level has risen so much in the past ten years, to a large extent due to the continuing globalization of the game. The level will rise again greatly over the next ten years and, yes, somebody that plays better than Filler will probably emerge at some point. It's the natural flow of things.
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One thing about Shane's long TAR matches in his coming out years... I don't think he played the very best players in the world, which he is doing now with Gorst. His toughest opponent was Alex, who I think was actually a bit past his peak then. Everyone else he beat like a drum, including Dennis. He never played the top Taiwanese players outside of tournament competition. No Ko brothers. No Wu (then China not Taiwan). He did play Chang and broke even and they called it a draw. That is not a bad reflection on Shane, as he wanted to play anybody in the world. Those games, unfortunately, just never materialized.
 
wrldpro

Thread '9-Ball needs to be fixed'

I gave an interview concerning this along with Billy Incardona in November at the International and we both agreed.
Why was the break changed to putting the 9- ball on the spot for breaking? Simple answer is the wing ball or 3rd ball in the rack was going in on the break shot 90% of the time. So now most tournaments the correction is to put the 9 ball on the spot instead of the 1 ball. The problem is the 1 ball goes in the side pocket over 90% of the time and players are almost able to play position on the 2 ball and if they don’t have a pocket for the 2 ball then most of the time they...
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Magictrat007 said:
In my opinion, he was better than he is now in his late 20s and early 30s. But that’s my opinion I could be wrong. I think the gap between him filler and Gorst would be smaller during that time. Also, some say that no one has ever played like filler and Gorst. I believe DENNIS orcollo was playing like this 10-12 years ago.
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Sorry, but Dennis was not close to being in the conversation with Shane, and Dennis would not get in the box with JL Chang. I saw Chang bark at him a few times at Derby City, but Dennis knew better. Review Dennis' career and you'll see that his title count at the majors is a bit light. He's a deserving BCA hall of famer, but not even close to being in the GOAT conversation.

No, Shane was not better back in the day. In the break from the kitchen with 4 1/2" pockets days, his break was so strong that he was able to overcome some minor tactical weaknesses. Today's tighter pockets and tougher break rules have transformed both 9ball and 10ball into games in which defense and kicking are far important than in the past. Although he won a WPA World 9ball title in 2022, Shane has not won any of the WNT majors in any of the five seasons in which that tour has existed. That's largely because, since 2019, the fields have been much tougher than when Shane was winning most of his titles.
 
sjm said:
Sorry, but Dennis was not close to being in the conversation with Shane, and Dennis would not get in the box with JL Chang. I saw Chang bark at him a few times at Derby City, but Dennis knew better. Review Dennis' career and you'll see that his title count at the majors is a bit light. He's a deserving BCA hall of famer, but not even close to being in the GOAT conversation.

No, Shane was not better back in the day. In the break from the kitchen with 4 1/2" pockets days, his break was so strong that he was able to overcome some minor tactical weaknesses. Today's tighter pockets and tougher break rules have transformed both 9ball and 10ball into games in which defense and kicking are far important than in the past. Although he won a WPA World 9ball title in 2022, Shane has not won any of the WNT majors in any of the five seasons in which that tour has existed. That's largely because, since 2019, the fields have been much tougher than when Shane was winning most of his titles.
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I disagree
 
sjm said:
Your every right, sir, and I respect your opinion.

If you did look up Dennis' resume of titles, however, I'm not sure how you'd place him anywhere near the GOAT conversation.
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I don’t put him as goat but I do feel he was playing as good of rotation as anyone today from what I actually saw during those years. If u disagree ok. Also we are In the western hemisphere i know chin shun Yang was doing wonderful things 15 years ago on the east and playing excellent in money matches, almost perfect. Tough to compare those who didn’t go head to head from different eras.
 
8intheside said:
Fedor is a machine and when he’s in stroke he’s almost unbeatable. That being said something has to be done about the break. You shouldn’t be able to make the 1 every time and I would eliminate jump cues. Nineball has become a joke for pros.
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this wasn't tournament conditions. the side pocket size makes a big difference for the 1 ball going
 
Frosty said:
No that’s always, it makes a mockery of the game in my opinion with MR not only allowing, but seemingly encouraging the raucous, rowdy behavior of the audience. I find it disrespectful to the players and the game. Apparently this is a MR thing as similarly, I don’t like Emily at MR’s changes in matches at WNT events.

I remember attending the first US Open in Vegas after MR’s taking over the rights to the US Open, pumping in music during matches, etc., I find it appalling. it appears Emily in her lack of experience regarding this game, and her true strength, which is marketing, feels that making this game into a carnival like atmosphere is the way to success. Perhaps it appeals to the lowest common denominator of “fans” in the way that checkers is more appealing to great unwashed as compared to say Chess. To me, I’d rather see the game be as it always was than see it be more popular via these methods.

This game requires an inordinate amount of concentration to play it at an elite level just as snooker or golf does. As a result I think MR should give it the same respect as it does snooker, instead of defiling it in the name of profit, you’d never see snooker refs allowing these antics in snooker championships. I knew the WNT would be a circus the moment she was given rule over it by Barry Hearn and I think he’s an asshole for not putting it under the leadership of someone with a pool background. It made it clear it’s about money, and not about respect or sanctity of this game.
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Yeah I agree 100% on this. But Matchroom is in in showbiz market and that's their bread and butter so it was kind of obvious that Mosconi Cup was gradually transformed into flashing lights, noisy crowds and chest-pounding player antics. Does it appreciate the sport? No way. Does it make players sweat? Yeah! Is it good entertainment? Well, compared to other silent and serene tournaments, I have to say deinitely. I can tolerate one carnival event per year.
 
mjantti said:
Yeah I agree 100% on this. But Matchroom is in in showbiz market and that's their bread and butter so it was kind of obvious that Mosconi Cup was gradually transformed into flashing lights, noisy crowds and chest-pounding player antics. Does it appreciate the sport? No way. Does it make players sweat? Yeah! Is it good entertainment? Well, compared to other silent and serene tournaments, I have to say deinitely. I can tolerate one carnival event per year.
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And I agree with your assessments to a point. I’ve spent my life in this game and as a result love and respect it enough that I feel it should not debased for the unwashed masses. I’m not interested in being entertained, even if I was, watching something I love and revere be reduced isn’t something I find entertaining. It is what it is and MR is going to do what they’re going to do.
 
JAM said:
I have been searching for the score all over Facebook and here. Not a peep. Amazing to have such promotion beforehand and not a mention of the score while it's in progress.

I don't know about others, but I was glued to the tube watching Norway v. England last night, and Keith was sweating some fight on Paramount+.
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You could have watched it live on you tube lol
 
markjames said:
hide the 1 ball in the stack and the breaker can hit any ball first?

why hasn’t this been tried?
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How is this any different? The 2 ball is already random. They will still cut the headball and shoot at the lowest ball, which would be the 1 ball instead of the 2.

Put the 1 ball as one 2 balls in the back that are right in front of the last ball and make them kick at the 1 and it has to be a good hit. LOL.
 
mjantti said:
Yeah I agree 100% on this. But Matchroom is in in showbiz market and that's their bread and butter so it was kind of obvious that Mosconi Cup was gradually transformed into flashing lights, noisy crowds and chest-pounding player antics. Does it appreciate the sport? No way. Does it make players sweat? Yeah! Is it good entertainment? Well, compared to other silent and serene tournaments, I have to say deinitely. I can tolerate one carnival event per year.
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Agreed. In fact, the Mosconi Cup, more than anything, introduced American pool to European players and fans.

Although Eurotour began two years earlier, the inclusion of snooker stars like Steve Davis, Jimmy White and Alex Higgins in the first few editions of the Mosconi Cup drew the attention of many European fans and cueists. In the aftermath of this, Eurotour grew and grew.

By 2000, the World Pool Championship was contested in Cardiff, Wales, and many European cueists tried their luck at it.

Before the Mosconi Cup, you could count the number of European cueists that played in America more than occasionally on the fingers of one hand. By 2005, many European pool players were playing the majors contested in America.

By 2010, Europe had caught and passed America at American pool and has dominated at the Mosconi ever since.

The spectacle that is the Mosconi was the launching pad for American pool in Europe. Anyone who doesn't think the players want to win at the Mosconi really badly is misinformed.

Agreed that one such event per year is enough, but the Mosconi, billed by Matchroom as pool's biggest party, is nothing less than that, and it has figured prominently in the growth of the game.
 
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