Jump stick rule change??

I have seen Efren shoot a jump shot. Something as rare as hen's teeth. 🤷‍♂️ Executed to perfect off the point of the corner he had barricaded whitey into for the safety, but t shat a ball in doing it. 🤷‍♂️ He got the hit and hook. Another reason he is the GOAT.
 
Several thoughts:

1. Banning jump cues will never happen, for the reasons discussed.

2. If you did ban them, guys like Fedor will still have an advantage. Fedor played Turning Stone one year (can jump with break cue only) and he took all the weight out of his breaker, still broke great and made tons of great jumps with it.

3. The level of safety play IS way better these days, despite what SJM may think. Appleton said on a video that he’s had to relearn his safety game. When he joined the tour, any full ball snooker was a good safety. Maybe the oppenent hits the ball but they may well sell out. Now players jump AND kick so well that a simple safety like that likely means your opponent will jump it in,kick it in or leave you in jail. He said before he would take the safety that he was 100 certain to get even if just a bare ball safety, but now he has to go for the dead nuts hook, even if there is a chance he will sell out, because the old safe wasn’t safe.

4. On the point of safety improvements, it’s just the increase in knowledge. Efren and Varner (and Sigel) were extraordinary, and as good or better than many of today’s players in the kicking game. But overall the level wasn’t as high. At most many players were kicking to hit it. Earl and Archer were the top 9b players on their eras and were NOT exceptional kickers by today’s standards. Now all top players have learned from Efren and others, know all kicking systems and know they have hit it and get it safe (hit the correct side of the ball) even if it’s riskier because you might miss completely. Just watch Filler and SVB in this rack and tell me the safety game was better in the old days.

 
GideonF said:
Several thoughts:

3. The level of safety play IS way better these days, despite what SJM may think.
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Actually, I agree. For every good defensive player of the 1990's, there are five today. The average standard is super-high. Still, we have yet to see somebody reach Reyes or Varner level. Of course, we likely will at some point.

The point I'm really making is that while the presence of the jump cue has changed the defensive requirements in safety play, if has not raised the bar.

Whether the goal is to cut off as many kicking angles as possible, as was the priority back in the day, or getting as close to the obstructing ball as possible, these are two different approaches to and priorities in defense. Personally, I think there is greater artistry in achieving the former over the latter, but to each his own. Nobody ever did a better job of denying the kicking angles than Varner, but his brand of defense is slightly less of a guideline for today's best, as they must also protect against the jump shot.

It is best to give both generations of defensive players their due.
 
How about this, all jump shots to pocket a ball Must be called before execution.
If the shooter misses.... the incoming player is allowed to take the shot or give it back.
I truly dislike the ''bad beat''.... being hooked after a lucky jump shot miss.
 
Island Drive said:
How about this, all jump shots to pocket a ball Must be called before execution.
If the shooter misses.... the incoming player is allowed to take the shot or give it back.
I truly dislike the ''bad beat''.... being hooked after a lucky jump shot miss.
Click to expand...

Or after a "lucky kick shot miss"?

Luck sometimes comes into play. We learn to live with it...
 
u12armresl said:
Lots of talk about how Fedor is accepting push outs and jumping to either make a good hit, or make the ball.

Do you think going back to the old break stick and playing stick, that is all you can have is on the horizon?

Corey figured out the break and they added rules, are jump sticks too prevalent, and there needs to be a change to that rule?
That and a new way to keep the pace and excitement of 9 ball, without the guaranteed 9 ball on the break or the 1 ball on the break.

Back to wood or plastic racks and no jump sticks?
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They are making a fortune selling jump cues....they will never go away.
 
I love how you all act like what fedor does is easy. Do you have any idea the insane amount of work He put in to be that accurate with a jump cue? No different than watching the accuracy these guys have playing multi rail kick safes which he is amazing at as well.. because he worked at it.
I have no issue with jump cue’s. They are to stay no matter how much the crotchety old men who want us to go back to people playing straight pool in quite rooms want them to disappear.
 
If we ban jump sticks, would we allow a normal shaft with a lightweight handle just long enough to make the whole cue 40 inches? Or is that just another way to describe a jump stick?

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
If we ban jump sticks, would we allow a normal shaft with a lightweight handle just long enough to make the whole cue 40 inches? Or is that just another way to describe a jump stick?

pj
chgo
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40 inches would be jump cue minimum. Assuming you mean 58 inches.

Presumably any rule would be like Turning Stone or Derby (pre WNT changes). As I mentioned above, at TS (jump with breaker or shooting cue) Fedor took all the weights out of his breaker and jumped fine. Old DCC rules were playing cue only for jumps
 
sjm said:
Actually, I agree. For every good defensive player of the 1990's, there are five today. The average standard is super-high. Still, we have yet to see somebody reach Reyes or Varner level. Of course, we likely will at some point.
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I think Skyler in his prime was probably near their level. I wish he still played like he did ten years ago.

I've said this before on these forums and I'll say it again now. I'm not totally against jump cues/jumping balls. But, I do think they should only be allowed for an incoming player. If a player hooks himself/herself, they shouldn't be allowed to use one for a "get-out-of-jail-free card". JMO
 
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Maniac said:
I think Skyler in his prime was probably near their level. I wish he still played like he did ten years ago.
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Agreed, Skyler was an elite defensive player, and it's part of the reason he had several deep runs at the Matchroom majors and also success at the Mosconi.
Maniac said:
I've said this before on these forums and I'll say it again now. I'm not totally against jump cues/jumping balls. But, I do think they should only be allowed for an incoming player. If a player hooks himself/herself, they shouldn't be allowed to use one for a "get-out-of-jail-free card". JMO
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I've made this argument for over thirty years. The happy medium solution is to allow the jump cue only on the first shot of a player's inning. I agree that a player that hooks him/herself should not find any relief in the jump cue.
 
in one pocket always no jumping allowed. that kept the game two dimensional as it should be in my mind.

jump cues are here to stay. but really only effective for the pros. the amateurs ruin the cloths and ruin also practicing jumping.

most would be better off playing shoot out.

but as we know the worse players all want to emulate their favorite pro in all sports.
 
maha said:
in one pocket always no jumping allowed. that kept the game two dimensional as it should be in my mind.

jump cues are here to stay. but really only effective for the pros. the amateurs ruin the cloths and ruin also practicing jumping.

most would be better off playing shoot out.

but as we know the worse players all want to emulate their favorite pro in all sports.
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I think jumping in one hole would not only render basic traps useless, the rack are would be rendered "unplayable". To me, that's a case for a carbon weave cloth; Bullet Proof to borrow a term.
 
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