The new U S. pro pool tour
- Thread starter jay helfert
- Start date
I've said what I think is necessary but you're right it would take some big money and a lot of marketing to get it to work.
We need to have owner/player teams in a mosconi cup type format, with longer races or multiple races in a set. The owner recruits the players for their team and they go against other teams.
The thing that's missing in pro pool is fan investment. All successful sports have fan investment a reason to get behind someone, your team, your states' team, or your city's team.
There's a reason that the Mosconi cup is the biggest event in pool. It's fan investment in the outcome.
From what I can tell, only one of those events was held, the McCreery Champion of Champions tournament in 2018 with 12 players. It was backed by Robert Mercer and played at his "Owl's Nest" mansion on Long Island. The first-place prize was $150,000, won by Frédéric Caudron.
Here's some info about subsequent plans that fell through: https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/soooooo.560334/#post-7738256
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Jaden is right on the fan engagement. If there is a team aspect of it, it is more likely to draw fans. The World Cup is a perfect example. You might not watch or like soccer, but you will root your country on.
A lot of people hit on the financial aspect of this. How many times has someone said "Joe Rogan is a fan and has money. Why can't he invest in a tour." Because he is smart and knows that it's probably a money loss. Promoters need to make money from events and having free streams and not charging people to watch the events in person is a horrible business model.
A lot of people hit on the financial aspect of this. How many times has someone said "Joe Rogan is a fan and has money. Why can't he invest in a tour." Because he is smart and knows that it's probably a money loss. Promoters need to make money from events and having free streams and not charging people to watch the events in person is a horrible business model.
Agree on the team thing. Here's the problem I see with it though... In AZ we had the Saguaro Cup, like the Mosconi Cup but with the best players from the East Valley going against the best players from the West Valley. It was awesome. After a few years, all of the NON-top players started to complain that they never get picked. So they all created a different team competition. Now they have East vs West for different fargo ranges. Everyone except the players over like 660 can participate. And the Saguaro Cup is dead.
Everything has to be fair, everyone has to be included. It's the way pool seems to work. It reinforces the idea that even pool players don't want to watch pool, they'd rather play.
Yeah but that was a mix of good players and not so good players. I'm talking best of the best teams. No one would follow the cubs, the cowboys, the rangers if they mixed in high schoolers with the good players.
Also, it takes the proper marketing, you can't get behind your team, if no one knows they're even playing.
To get it started it would probably take twice the money that the tour takes to market it properly. Like I said, big money.
Easy-e this is one of the other reasons that the saguaro cup didn't do all that well. I didn't even know it was going on when it was going on and I'm a local. Hell I might've wanted to play on one of the teams.
I know I can't stand watching bowling anymore since so many stopped using their thumbs in the ball. They look like kindergarteners trying to throw a ball that is way too heavy for them when they don't use their thumb in the ball.
It was the best of the designated areas. I would love to follow pool teams of the best regional players. But the same thing would happen. Everyone would want to play, so they'd design their own lower-level teams and have their own competitions.
How long have you been a local? The last one was several years ago.
9 years. But I haven't really been playing the last several.
Several weeks ago now I went in to mainstreet to practice some and Tim walked in and said "holy $h17, he's not dead".
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Gotcha. They were pretty popular events! Now they do the E vs W. Everyone gets to play. Well, almost everyone...
Yeah maybe it was the east versus west that I was thinking of where the not so best players were playing and it was fargo limited.
What happened to people that they want competition to lower their level so it can be "fair"? It used to be that if you wanted to play with the big boys you knew that you had to up your game. This doesn't apply just to pool but everything. Its pathetic. I also have no problem with handicapped events, there are folks out there who just will never be at a high level but still want to compete with relatively equally skilled people but you gotta understand where you fit in.
If you're referring to the Crystal Kelly tournament in Monaco/Nice, it ran for 17 years, ending in 2011. It was supported by a software billionaire from The Netherlands, IIRC. Unfortunately, he had major health issues and died. He also supported a chess tournament.
Maybe you mean the McCreery invitational that took place in New York in 2018. That was funded by an American finance billionaire. It was a one-off, rumored to end due to complaints from a family member.
Actually I think APA is sitting in the Cat Birds seat. It has the largest membership of all the pool organizations active. For some reason they keep their amateur status and don't raise the prize pool?? They hold at least two LV stops yearly for about 10 days with 7K players attending for a very mediocre prize pool. I think they could pass all the other organizations in a couple of years if they really wanted to. They seem content where they are at.
The APA is a business. They cater to players who average an APA 4-5 skill level. They do sponsor top players for events, such as exhibitions. I think Earl did some and Jeanette Lee and Fedor certainly have. But their main goal is to make a profit and evidently they don't see a way to do that with pro events.
I don't think it's the prize money that brings the APA players to Las Vegas. I think there are over 10k players now at the APA national events and the CSI combined events in March bring in about 13,000 bodies. On average, it's a moderately expensive vacation.
I think it would be great if US league pool did support a pro tour, but beyond CSI hosting the PBS events in March, I don't see it happening. If each league player in the US paid $5 per year towards a pro tour, that would be over $3 million. If a million came out for production costs of a tour, that still leaves two million for added money. It's not going to happen because that money would effectively be coming out of the pockets of the league businesses.
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I can’t think of a sport where the local level or amateur leagues fund the professional level. Why would they? High school football doesn’t fund the NFL, beer league hockey doesn’t fund the NHL, etc…. Sure the participants may buy the product because they like the sport, but their costs to participate don’t include a direct subsidy. That’s why their tax dollars have to be used for the owners’ stadiums.
Governing bodies OTOH do fund pro events in some cases, but generally one championship. The USGA and R&A putting on the US Open and Open Championship respectively, as well as corresponding women’s and seniors opens. These events have some amateurs still, but are basically pro events now. Pro tours and governing bodies are separate in all the sports I can think of.
League pool has its own model and seems to work. Multiple leagues make a go of it. I think the UPL may use the league to promote professional pool. IIRC the website of the English business said that. I don’t know how the US UPL fits into that. We’ll see how that goes in time.
The formula for pro pool being a stable, successful spectator sport hasn’t been worked out/ stumbled upon. It would be nice if it did, maybe the WNT will work long term.