Agreed, I miss World Pool Masters, and it's a shame the event with so deep history all of a sudden got dropped. And World Cup of Pool is (was) so much entertaining! I loved watching playing styles collide within a team.
Matchroom, WNT, Mosconi Cup, and American Pro Pool
- Thread starter JAM
- Start date
Shane is terrible every year
America promotes NOT moving up on your team - if handicaps worked, they wouldn't have to break up teams. I say let 5 7's in APA play on the same team(they may need to move the top handicap to 10)
Not so. Over his 18 years at the Mosconi Cup, Shane's record is actually a bit better than the aggregate record of the other players on those 18 USA teams: https://forums.azbilliards.com/thre...yed-on-either-team.464772/page-4#post-8007067
For singles and doubles matches combined, he was in more wins than losses in 8 of the 18 years, more losses than wins in 8 years, and an equal number of each in 2 years.
Here is Shane's Mosconi Cup Record in matches won and lost each year -- Singles, Doubles
2007 -- 2-1, 1-1
2008 -- 1-2, 0-2
2009 -- 2-1, 1-1
2010 -- 1-1, 1-2
2011 -- 2-1, 1-2
2012 -- 1-2, 2-0
2013 -- 0-1, 2-0
2014 -- 0-3, 1-2
2015 -- 1-2, 2-1
2016 -- 0-1, 0-3
2017 -- 1-1, 0-3
2018 -- 2-1, 2-1
2019 -- 2-2, 3-0
2020 -- 1-2, 0-3
2021 -- 0-4, 1-2
2022 -- 0-2, 4-0
2023 -- 1-0, 1-1
2024 -- 0-1, 0-2
Totals -- 17-28 (winning percentage 38%), 22-26 (46%)
In the Team matches for those 18 years, Team USA and Team Europe each won 10 matches.
Sorry, but that's flawed data.
Comparing Shane to other players on Team USA is silly.
SVB is supposed to be America's GOAT.
He should have a better record than the Europeans too.
17-28 overall. That's worse than I thought. You would think that Shane's record should be more the reverse of that, like 28-17. That is if he had played up to his standards. All I can remember is all the missed balls. I wonder what his Fargo would be for all those matches. I'm guessing closer to 700 speed.
And yet he's a 1st ballot HOF'r with MULTIPLE major wins. I think we've all known a LONG time that the team format rah-rah shit is not his cup of tea. Combine that with the lame race-to-5 format and i don't hold his MC record against him at all. Just like in golf you've got guys that play great at the Ryder Cup but rarely, if ever, win on tour. Its a one-off exhibition/diversion and should be treated as such. Its never going to 'move the needle' as far as who are the best players career-wise.
How much money are you betting on a player that has a 38% and 46% win rate?
I may not be a math genius but that looks like a losing proposition to me.
I wish you and I had bet 10k on every match
My response had nothing to do with betting. It refuted your claim that Shane has been terrible every year in the Mosconi Cup. But I certainly agree that, overall, he has performed significantly below the level at which most of us feel he should have performed.
In the Cup get rid of the captain, get a Coach.
Like Bustamante's recent accomplishment.
When his players got into a spot, he gave em his viewpoints.
I totally understand when multiple teammates try to help, it doesn't.
But when the captain lets the crew direct the ship.... you more likely to go off course.
I vote for Corey Deuel to be considered for an upcoming Mosconi Cup Coaching position.
Good coaches see matters players don't.
Like Bustamante's recent accomplishment.
When his players got into a spot, he gave em his viewpoints.
I totally understand when multiple teammates try to help, it doesn't.
But when the captain lets the crew direct the ship.... you more likely to go off course.
I vote for Corey Deuel to be considered for an upcoming Mosconi Cup Coaching position.
Good coaches see matters players don't.
He is a losing player at MC there's no other way to put it.
If we look at the 23 matches in the last 10 years, Shanes effective opponent rating is 832, and he would be expected to be a slight favorite overall. In those matches he won 79 games and lost 93. That's the expected performance of a player rated 808.
Mike, Shane played 24 singles matches in the last 10 Cups, not 23. And his record in games for those 24 matches is 81-98. So it looks like you might be missing a match that he lost 2-5, which happened in both 2018 and 2021.
It's a shame that you have to exclude his doubles matches for this, as he did a little better there -- record of 13-16 in matches in the last 10 years (although I didn't check the record in games).
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Is that based on the Fargo of his opponent at the time those matches occurred? If it's based on each player's Fargo of today, it's misleading. Players rated as high as 832 is a relatively new thing. It wasn't so long ago that the list of Fargo 800 players had almost nobody on it and I'd have to bet that some of the Team Europe's against which SVB competed did not feature even one player that was Fargo 800+ at the time.
Finally, SVB has been a top five player in the world for about fifteen years. In view of this, his performance in singles at the Mosconi has been terrible. By Fargo, he has probably been the favorite to win over 90% of his singles matches.
Yup, I've got four different seats for the four days. I think I'm in VIP seating for two of the four days.
If you'll be there, by all means say hi.
Yes, but I have no idea what you look like, while I'm the guy who looks just like the picture in my avatar. You'll have to find me.
sudocrushms
Well-known member
...still a better speed than any other American they could put on the team...
Regarding SVB: I agree that he doesn't do well at Mosconi, but WHO would be put in his place? There is no one that would make the team better. It's not like Europe and Asia where you have a line out the door of players that can win.
Which brings us back to the why. Why can't the US generate world class players at the same rate as other countries? (not looking for answers, we've hashed this out many times)