1970 9 ball rules

iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I want to run a "retro" 9 ball tournament with 1970-1990 rules. Pre Texas Express. Can I have some help? I didn't start until 1990's.

I want the "push out" rules. Can someone spell them out for me? Is it basically just like the modern push after the break, but at any time?

I'll have no jump and no break cues, since no one had them then.

The foul rules, when I started, I recall it was any pocketed balls on a break foul were spotted, and it was BIH behind the line. But I can't remember if a foul during the course of the game was BIH anywhere or behind the line, and if it mattered if a ball was pocketed on said foul.

Thanks.
 
If you are going to play something like this, you should forget the push out and play "gentleman's hit" option on all shots if legal shot isn't made on the attempted object ball which results in a choice given to the opponent to shoot or let the previous shooter shoot again. All scratches are in the kitchen and if the object ball is also in the kitchen, the object ball goes on the spot. Pretty much ring game rules for 2 players and no other winning / money balls except the 9. Optional rule would be if 8 ball is pocketed and cue ball scratches, put the 8 ball on the spot and it is ball in hand in the kitchen.
 
Good questions, I have been interested in the original rules also.
I get the no jump cues but players have jumped with their regular cues for sometime.
And would you allow breaking with a house cue?, if players did not want to use their playing cue to break with?
 
The push-out/roll-out rules are when the shooter declares a push-out, or roll-out as it's commonly referred to, at almost any time during the game, particularly if they felt they did not have a clear shot, rather than just only after the break. This was an advantage to a shooter who had a lot of shots in their arsenal, hoping to push out to a shot their opponent may not know. When a shooter announced a push-out, they could place the cue ball anywhere on the table. The normal requirements of hitting a rail or driving the cue ball into an object ball are waived.

By the early '80s, the push-out/roll-out rules were changed to Texas Express rules, restricting the push-out to only the shot immediately after the break to speed up tournament play for television. Keith McCready said when they changed the rules in the '80s, it was because the East Coast couldn't beat the West Coast players, so they had to change the rules. But that's the world according to Keith. :ROFLMAO:

I'm sure there are variations to the push-out/roll-out rules from days gone by. One thing most old-school players will agree on is that when the jump cues came to the fore, it ruined a good safety play.
 
shoot out is the same as now on the break. it was simply any two fouls in a row is ball in hand. any where. doesnt have to be by the same player.

so after any foul the other guy can shoot or make you shoot. you dont have to call push out. as a foul is a foul.

scratch in the pocket cue ball behind the line. if object ball behind line also it gets spotted. some played go down if behind the line.
some play all balls spotted. or no balls spotted

scratch on the break some play all stay down some say spot all balls. area dependent. most say stay down.

winner has choice of who breaks. one object ball must hit a rail for a legal break. so a safe break is allowed.

object ball off table just gets spotted like it never happened. cueball off, behind the line loss of turn.

no double hit if you elevate your cue 45 degrees. no push shots through the pack. must elevate if frozen or shoot away from object ball.

cue ball fouls only. and put object balls back where they were decided fairly by opponent. no matter how many moved.

opponent will stand over shot if close hit. just as gambling now in a pool room.
no crybaby shit about sharking.

no stupid rules like loss if you start to unscrew your cue.
 
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maha said:
shoot out is the same as now on the break. it was simply any two fouls in a row is ball in hand. any where. doesnt have to be by the same player.

so after any foul the other guy can shoot or make you shoot. you dont have to call push out. as a foul is a foul.

scratch in the pocket cue ball behind the line. if object ball behind line also it gets spotted. some played go down if behind the line.
some play all balls spotted. or no balls spotted

scratch on the break some play all stay down some say spot all balls. area dependent. most say stay down.

winner has choice of who breaks. one object ball must hit a rail for a legal break. so a safe break is allowed.

object ball off table just gets spotted like it never happened. cueball off, behind the line loss of turn.

no double hit if you elevate your cue 45 degrees. no push shots through the pack. must elevate if frozen or shoot away from object ball.

cue ball fouls only. and put object balls back where they were decided fairly by opponent. no matter how many moved.

opponent will stand over shot if close hit. just as gambling now in a pool room.
no crybaby shit about sharking.

no stupid rules like loss if you start to unscrew your cue.
Click to expand...
So a pocket scratch is BIH behind the line, with pocketed balls are spotted? And if the lowest ball is behind the line, it gets spotted #1 in the lineup on the spot?

Any other foul such as failing to hit the lowest ball or no rail, (2 in a row) is BIH anywhere?
 
iusedtoberich said:
One more, there is no such thing as 3 fouls is a loss of game, correct? It can't come up?
Click to expand...
no 3 foul rule ever i can remember as with shootout you could just push out.
iusedtoberich said:
So a pocket scratch is BIH behind the line, with pocketed balls are spotted? And if the lowest ball is behind the line, it gets spotted #1 in the lineup on the spot?

Any other foul such as failing to hit the lowest ball or no rail, (2 in a row) is BIH anywhere?
Click to expand...
when playing spotting balls yes. or sometimes played all balls down. which kept the games moving.

yes any two fouls/scratches in a row is ball in hand anywhere for the next player. you foul and then i foul you get ball in hand. anywhere.

so if i pushout or make any foul and you let me shoot and i foul you get ball in hand.
if you decide to take the shot and foul i get ball in hand.

all push outs are a foul or its a legit shot if it hits a rail. and no different is a pushout from any ordinary foul.
 
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those were the basic rules some areas of the country had slightly different ones. you have to go by whatever you choose. and works best.
 
maha said:
shoot out is the same as now on the break. it was simply any two fouls in a row is ball in hand. any where. doesnt have to be by the same player.

so after any foul the other guy can shoot or make you shoot. you dont have to call push out. as a foul is a foul.

scratch in the pocket cue ball behind the line. if object ball behind line also it gets spotted. some played go down if behind the line.
some play all balls spotted. or no balls spotted

scratch on the break some play all stay down some say spot all balls. area dependent. most say stay down.

winner has choice of who breaks. one object ball must hit a rail for a legal break. so a safe break is allowed.

object ball off table just gets spotted like it never happened. cueball off, behind the line loss of turn.

no double hit if you elevate your cue 45 degrees. no push shots through the pack. must elevate if frozen or shoot away from object ball.

cue ball fouls only. and put object balls back where they were decided fairly by opponent. no matter how many moved.

opponent will stand over shot if close hit. just as gambling now in a pool room.
no crybaby shit about sharking.

no stupid rules like loss if you start to unscrew your cue.
Click to expand...
Love your explaination!
 
I grew up playing two shot shootout. More or less what Maha posted, but in New York, we spotted everything that went in illegally. If you made four balls on the break and scratched, all four of them would spot, at least on the nine footers.

In most cases, the pros switched to Texas Express in 1983, and when the pros switched, so did I, but in the world of action, shootout was still around for about five more years. I never saw it played after 1990.
 
As I recall, all balls spotted. If your opponent scratched on the break, and the 1 ball was behind the line, it would spot first and then anything else that was down. This could make it really hard for him to hit the 1 ball, and he was already on the first foul.
 
I recently purchased some old rulebooks from @Bob Jewett, and the 1971 rulebook refers to an optional Shoot Out Rule:

"When agreed before starting play the following rule may be in effect. When incoming player cannot hit the lowest numbered ball on the table directly, he may roll the cue ball to a spot where the ball can be hit. His opponent then has the option of shooting or making the incoming player take the shot. If the incoming player takes the shot and fails to hit the lowest numbered ball then his opponent has the cue ball in hand, and can start from any position on the table to shoot at the lowest numbered object ball on the table."​

Otherwise there is nothing in the rules about spotting balls, general fouls and/or a three foul rule, penalties for fouls, or taking ball in hand in the kitchen. Possible these rules are assumed as 'standard rules of pocket Billiards' which the '71 rulebook doesn't even mention.

The only other interesting notes in the 1971 rules pertains to pattern racking is thus: 1 on the head, 2 on the left corner, 3 in the rear, 4 on the right corner.

Pertaining to consecutive games, the loser breaks.

Lots of room for interpretation and negotiation back then I guess. TE seems to have erased all previous ambiguity.
 
cjr3559 said:
... which the '71 rulebook doesn't even mention. ...
Click to expand...
The BCA rules for 9-Ball were not usable until after 1985 or so. In their defense, I don't think they organized any 9-Ball tournaments.

Their optional pushout rule quoted above is pretty bad. The second foul is only failure to hit. A scratch or no rail doesn't give ball in hand.
 
In '78-80ish we played sort of a 'speedup' version: the only ball that spotted was ball before the 9b and if balls were in the kitchen on a scratch they all went down and you shot the lowest ball outside kitchen.
 
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