Grip Hand too loose?

HitHrdNDraw

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Is it possible to be holding the cue too loosely? I have heard all of the analogies like "hold it like you would hold toothpaste without squeezing it out, etc" but none of these really make sense to me, can someone please try to explain the amount of grip pressure that is ideal? also, does this grip pressure change at all through the stroke, as I know the natural tendency is to tighten up on forward stroke/impact?
 

mikepage

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There's an interesting line in Matt Sherman's article, "Pro Grip Secrets," in the latest issue of Inside Pool:

"A secret [...] is to grip lighter than you've dreamed."

Is it possible to be holding the cue too loosely? I have heard all of the analogies like "hold it like you would hold toothpaste without squeezing it out, etc" but none of these really make sense to me, can someone please try to explain the amount of grip pressure that is ideal? also, does this grip pressure change at all through the stroke, as I know the natural tendency is to tighten up on forward stroke/impact?
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
Is it possible to be holding the cue too loosely? I have heard all of the analogies like "hold it like you would hold toothpaste without squeezing it out, etc" but none of these really make sense to me, can someone please try to explain the amount of grip pressure that is ideal? also, does this grip pressure change at all through the stroke, as I know the natural tendency is to tighten up on forward stroke/impact?



You don't need any grip pressure actually, you can shoot and do anything you need by just the weight of the cue sitting in your fingers.

During the pendulum stroke the Grip would be better called a CRADLE instead, the cue rests on the cradle comprised of the 4 fingers of the hand, and the thumb is pointed straight down with its side resting gently against the cue. Remember you don't have to grip it, you cradle it.

One of the things that players have with finding the light grip is that they have fast and jerkey motions to their warmup and delivery strokes which makes the cue slide all over the place b/c of the quick and random nature of the stroke. If you set then pull back with control like golfers do on their swings then pause (length of pause is not important) and finally deliver and complete the full stroking motion.

You can play the game with any kind of grip, but some make it more difficult, the light grip is the most efficient at transferring the sticks energy to the CB....the light grip lets the stick drive itself via momentum, and the body can't match that momentum so you have to hit much harder to get the same action with a really firm grip.

Light is right for the pendulum,
Grey Ghost
 

pooltchr

Prof. Billiard Instructor
Silver Member
As soon as you tighten your grip, the muscles in your forearm tighten up. This restricts the ability to execute a smooth stroke. Make a fist, and notice what happens with the muscles in your forearm.
Grip pressure should be minimal, and remain consistent throughout the entire stroke.
Steve
 

dr9ball

"Lock Doctor"
Silver Member
Is it possible to be holding the cue too loosely? I have heard all of the analogies like "hold it like you would hold toothpaste without squeezing it out, etc" but none of these really make sense to me, can someone please try to explain the amount of grip pressure that is ideal? also, does this grip pressure change at all through the stroke, as I know the natural tendency is to tighten up on forward stroke/impact?

I like the "Cradle" term but I also think of it the way an infant holds on to someone's finger with their hand. Very little pressure but they won't drop it either.

So a good grip is sufficient if it just prevents the cue from dropping out of your hands. Others may have better ways of saying it.
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
I like the "Cradle" term but I also think of it the way an infant holds on to someone's finger with their hand. Very little pressure but they won't drop it either.

So a good grip is sufficient if it just prevents the cue from dropping out of your hands. Others may have better ways of saying it.


Exactly thats the cradling hands only necessary job, to be a barrier surrounding and supporting the cue stick so that it can freely travel along its predetermined path without flying across the room.

The pressure caused by gravity and the weight of the cue are enough to keep it in the hand, not to mention that the cue is tapered so no matter how light you grip it the cue wont fly completely through and out of your hand when stroking.

The cue is what needs to do the work, you can't output the same momentum that the cue can attain on its own.

Just like a pitcher may throw 100MPH but he sure as hell can't swing his arm anywhere near that fast. If a pitcher overgrips the ball it kills his velocity, and action....if he grips it even tighter he may hold on too long and release so late it hits him in the foot lol. The hand is just carrying the ball to an optimal launch trajectory, once in the correct spot the ball just leaves the hand by way of its own momentum and angular velocity. The hand DOES NOT do anything to get rid of the ball, its built into the motion to just slide out at the right optimum moment.

Thats the same way the cradle is going to work on your pendulum stroke. By the time the final forward stroke/delivery hits its first 1/3 the pendulum swing has given the cue stick all the momentum it needs to deliver the shot on its own power. Think of it like a bullet, the firing pin hits the cap which ignites the gunpowder propelling the bullet out of the sleeve, through the barrel towards the target. The forarm is like the firing cap, the wrist is your gunpowder that produces the greatest increase and transfer of momentum.

That bullet travels down the barrel, which acts only as a GUIDE...it does not squeeze the bullet just makes sure it doesn't bounce around, which lets the bullet retain the momentum the gunpowder provided it while gaining accuracy from the controlled but unhampered flight through the gun barrel. If there was any pressure placed on the bullets sides by the barrel the gun would shoot like garbage and the barrel eventually replaced.

If you try and provide the momentum for the entire length in exchange of letting the cue stick perform that task, your going to have to produce much more velocity with the arm/hand. Eventually that can tire out your muscles and help your game to fall apart depending on the amount of stress induced. Your accuracy is also being degraded since the body has to produce more power and velocity to get the job done....and we all ready know the harder you stroke the less accurate your going to be.

The light grip works easy like power steering in your car, too tight a grip is like driving a 1950's steel car without powersteering....its a pain in the ass and alot of work. It's 2010 everyone has powersteering now.

That hand is a cradle, and acts just like that gun barrel does...so don't be getting in the way of your bullets just let the lead fly :)


bang bang bang trigger tai chi,:thumbup:
Grey Ghost
 

robleyf7

AZB Horse 2016
Silver Member
Exactly thats the cradling hands only necessary job, to be a barrier surrounding and supporting the cue stick so that it can freely travel along its predetermined path without flying across the room.

The pressure caused by gravity and the weight of the cue are enough to keep it in the hand, not to mention that the cue is tapered so no matter how light you grip it the cue wont fly completely through and out of your hand when stroking.

The cue is what needs to do the work, you can't output the same momentum that the cue can attain on its own.

Just like a pitcher may throw 100MPH but he sure as hell can't swing his arm anywhere near that fast. If a pitcher overgrips the ball it kills his velocity, and action....if he grips it even tighter he may hold on too long and release so late it hits him in the foot lol. The hand is just carrying the ball to an optimal launch trajectory, once in the correct spot the ball just leaves the hand by way of its own momentum and angular velocity. The hand DOES NOT do anything to get rid of the ball, its built into the motion to just slide out at the right optimum moment.

Thats the same way the cradle is going to work on your pendulum stroke. By the time the final forward stroke/delivery hits its first 1/3 the pendulum swing has given the cue stick all the momentum it needs to deliver the shot on its own power. Think of it like a bullet, the firing pin hits the cap which ignites the gunpowder propelling the bullet out of the sleeve, through the barrel towards the target. The forarm is like the firing cap, the wrist is your gunpowder that produces the greatest increase and transfer of momentum.

That bullet travels down the barrel, which acts only as a GUIDE...it does not squeeze the bullet just makes sure it doesn't bounce around, which lets the bullet retain the momentum the gunpowder provided it while gaining accuracy from the controlled but unhampered flight through the gun barrel. If there was any pressure placed on the bullets sides by the barrel the gun would shoot like garbage and the barrel eventually replaced.

If you try and provide the momentum for the entire length in exchange of letting the cue stick perform that task, your going to have to produce much more velocity with the arm/hand. Eventually that can tire out your muscles and help your game to fall apart depending on the amount of stress induced. Your accuracy is also being degraded since the body has to produce more power and velocity to get the job done....and we all ready know the harder you stroke the less accurate your going to be.

The light grip works easy like power steering in your car, too tight a grip is like driving a 1950's steel car without powersteering....its a pain in the ass and alot of work. It's 2010 everyone has powersteering now.

That hand is a cradle, and acts just like that gun barrel does...so don't be getting in the way of your bullets just let the lead fly :)


bang bang bang trigger tai chi,:thumbup:
Grey Ghost

Amen brotha
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Justin...The simple answer is yes, you can hold it too loosely. You want to grip the cue loosely (it doesn't matter how you physically hold on to the cue, just don't clamp down on it when you strike the CB), but not so loosely that the cue actually slides in your hand. While that is the theory (using the cue weight and timing to produce the swing speed), if you let the cue slide, how much do you let it slide?...1", 2", 5"? With a shooting template and a mantra, your cuetip should finish at the same place on every 'standard operating process' shot...which is 95% of our pool game. Hope to see you in June.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Is it possible to be holding the cue too loosely? I have heard all of the analogies like "hold it like you would hold toothpaste without squeezing it out, etc" but none of these really make sense to me, can someone please try to explain the amount of grip pressure that is ideal? also, does this grip pressure change at all through the stroke, as I know the natural tendency is to tighten up on forward stroke/impact?
 

backplaying

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I had a long talk with CJ Wiley about moving on your shot.His advice was i was holding the stick to lightly with by back hand, and he said he puts alot of pressure on his finger tips while making a bridge.He said by putting pressure down with your bridge hand,it will help keep you from moving on the shot,and give you a solid foundation. When he showed me how hard he was pressing down on the table with his fingers,and how tight he gripped the butt, i was really shocked.He gave me a video that is very telling.
 

3kushn

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
OK I guess I'll confess something.

My grip is pretty loose through the back stroke and most of the forward stroke. Before contact I'm releasing the cue. It doesn't slip.... Well not much.


It looks terrible on video but it seems to help. I went to this extreme because I found myself strangling the cue at the finish. The idea came from watching a World Class 3C player open his hand up before contact.

Whew I feel better already.

Whats the down side?

I've read the grip should be consistent throughout. Why? Besides complicating the swing.
 

pooltchr

Prof. Billiard Instructor
Silver Member
I've read the grip should be consistent throughout. Why? Besides complicating the swing.

I think that is a good enough reason right there.

The goal of a pool stroke is to move the cue forward in a straight line toward your target. Any additional body movement that doesn't contribute to the goal has the potential to cause problems.

K.I.S.S.

Steve
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tom...Actually, keeping the light grip pressure constant throughout the range of motion (backswing, transition, forward stroke to finish position) is much less complicated than trying to "change" something in the middle of the process! It's all about learning to "feel" the cue...and nothing does that a numerical scale (#1 light-#5 strangle hold), as our brains are already 'hard-wired' for numerical scales and systems! Like Steve said...KISS rules! :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I've read the grip should be consistent throughout. Why? Besides complicating the swing.
 

Olive

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Very loose grip will give you most consistant but not most effective results.

There is a LOT of cue power to be generated by a wrist snap to accelerate your cue fastest at the point of contact with the cue ball.

If you find you are struggling under pressure and tend to tighten up - play loose.

If you naturally do not suffer from physical tension or are able to control it, you are losing a lot of potential for simplifying power shots.

o
 

poolplayer2093

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Is it possible to be holding the cue too loosely? I have heard all of the analogies like "hold it like you would hold toothpaste without squeezing it out, etc" but none of these really make sense to me, can someone please try to explain the amount of grip pressure that is ideal? also, does this grip pressure change at all through the stroke, as I know the natural tendency is to tighten up on forward stroke/impact?

Yeah it's possible. i accidently threw the cue once when i tried to shoot a shot. these days i'm doing some minor changes to my basic fundamentals
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Olive...Not true. I can break at 20+ mph, and power draw 2 table lengths, with a very loose grip. The "wrist snap" is unnecessary. As long as you finish your stroke, with a loose grip, it doesn't matter whether you 'snap' your wrist or not. Show me a shot you can do with a snap wrist, and I'll do it without. :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Very loose grip will give you most consistant but not most effective results.

There is a LOT of cue power to be generated by a wrist snap to accelerate your cue fastest at the point of contact with the cue ball.

If you find you are struggling under pressure and tend to tighten up - play loose.

If you naturally do not suffer from physical tension or are able to control it, you are losing a lot of potential for simplifying power shots.

o
 

PistolPat

Flip Strokin' since 91
Silver Member
THIS is so key especially with a loose grip hand....

I had a long talk with CJ Wiley about moving on your shot.His advice was i was holding the stick to lightly with by back hand, and he said he puts alot of pressure on his finger tips while making a bridge.He said by putting pressure down with your bridge hand,it will help keep you from moving on the shot,and give you a solid foundation. When he showed me how hard he was pressing down on the table with his fingers,and how tight he gripped the butt, i was really shocked.He gave me a video that is very telling.

Pressure part on the finger tips is a definite, especailly a closed bridge. No matter if you have a loose or tight grip hand
 
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Dakota Cues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There really are 2 schools of thought.

1. Super loose, and

2. Firm

A lot of the Philipino players use a very loose stroke. They have a lot of wrist action involved in their stroke though, and a loose grip facilitates wrist action. They also *usually* use heavier cues, and that aids in the way they play and their loose grip.

However some really good former pro's like C.J. Wiley and Jimmy Reid advocate a firm grip, and state that in their video. C.J. compares it to golf where golfers like Nick Faldo advise using a firm grip. I remember watching Jimmy's video and he said, "You want to use a firm grip. Not tight, but Firm." That does not mean "Loose".

I notice that I use a different amount of grip pressure depending on the shot, and I think a lot of players do this but might not even be aware they are doing it. I use a very light grip for high english/draw shots, and a firmer grip when I need to control the cueball over a short distance/low-speed shot.

My advice would be try different grip pressure on the shots you are having trouble with. You may find out that one grip pressure works better for the majority of shots (firm, in my case), but you'll need to lighten up on certain shots like long draw shots.
 

poolbreak

Registered
You don't need any grip pressure actually, you can shoot and do anything you need by just the weight of the cue sitting in your fingers.



I find this to be true. My observations have been that I get much more CB action with a loose grip. The CB seems to react to the stroke as intended more so than with a tight grip. When using extreme english, I get more miss cues with a tight grip, but when using a loose grip hardly ever miss cue. The stroke just feels right. When down in a match people (I) tend to shoot harder and tighten up, not just the grip but the whole body making it harder to come back. But if I make a conscious effort to stay loose I can stay in the game.
Also when breaking I seem to get a better scatter with a loose grip. And when striking the second row on an eight ball break, the eight seems to fly out of the rack alot more with the loose grip. I find myself at times realeasing my grip at break impact and just get a great scatter with the only draw back being a cue stick occasionally following the CB into the rack.
When jumping the loose grip returns far better results also, especially when jumping a ball in close.
The bottom line is to let the cue stick do the work.
 

Ratta

Hearing the balls.....
Silver Member
Olive...Not true. I can break at 20+ mph, and power draw 2 table lengths, with a very loose grip. The "wrist snap" is unnecessary. As long as you finish your stroke, with a loose grip, it doesn't matter whether you 'snap' your wrist or not. Show me a shot you can do with a snap wrist, and I'll do it without. :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com


100 % agree ^^
wrist-snapping =just another malfuntion-source

keep it simple :eek:)
 
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