Can't find a fargo rate on some of the more famous pool instructors

There are not big bucks playing pool either.

newcuer said:

It's not a hit job and if you ask must of the PBIA instructors they don't rely on teaching as there main source of income. Most teach sporadically. There is not big bucks in teaching pool. And I wouldn't be surprised if the lesser known PBIA instructors do have a fargo rate and do play tournaments because they probably teach because they love the game.

Also, I have to say I have learned more from Dr. Dave and Tor's videos in the past few years than anything else to help my game. I just find it odd, they don't have a fargo. Nothing more nothing less. But it could be due to that they aren't in area that uses fargo or just don't want to play tournaments.

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Any 60 year old's win a World nine ball tourney lately?

The game rely on more natural physical abilities than you think.

newcuer said:

But, as fargo does spread more and more..I will admit if I were to take lessons, and if fargo keeps spreading as it has been...I wouldn't select an instructor with an established fargo rating of say ~500.

Sorry, but this is pool not boxing, not baseball, not basketball, etc. The game doesn't rely on natural physical abilities nor being young like those other sports.

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I wouldn't defend your claim further, if I were you.

It has been illustrated from multiple angles why it is unfounded, at best.

newcuer said:

It's not a hit job and if you ask must of the PBIA instructors they don't rely on teaching as there main source of income. Most teach sporadically. There is not big bucks in teaching pool. And I wouldn't be surprised if the lesser known PBIA instructors do have a fargo rate and do play tournaments because they probably teach because they love the game.

Also, I have to say I have learned more from Dr. Dave and Tor's videos in the past few years than anything else to help my game. I just find it odd, they don't have a fargo. Nothing more nothing less. But it could be due to that they aren't in area that uses fargo or just don't want to play tournaments.

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...and you are surprised to find they don't have a Fargo rating?

newcuer said:

Most 60 year old's can't afford to play and train 40 hours a week at pool. At some point, they had to move on...for their sanity and to earn a livelihood (sans Earl of course).

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On the one hand, I understand thinking that if they really knew how to take a player's game up to a very high level, they'd apply it to their own game. Therefore, if they don't play at least a certain speed, their methods might not actually work as well as they claim.

But also you have to remember the amount of time you have to put into the game to play at a very high level, and how time-consuming it must be to try to make any sort of living off of teaching this game. I doubt anyone trying to support themselves as a pool instructor has as much time to devote to their own practice as most of us do, much less as much as the players we idolize.

Thus I can easily understand them not wanting to be rated on Fargo, as this would be a rating they don't have time to maintain at a high level and yet which could damage their credibility and livelihood simply by existing.

newcuer said:

It's not a hit job and if you ask must of the PBIA instructors they don't rely on teaching as there main source of income. Most teach sporadically. There is not big bucks in teaching pool. And I wouldn't be surprised if the lesser known PBIA instructors do have a fargo rate and do play tournaments because they probably teach because they love the game.

Also, I have to say I have learned more from Dr. Dave and Tor's videos in the past few years than anything else to help my game. I just find it odd, they don't have a fargo. Nothing more nothing less. But it could be due to that they aren't in area that uses fargo or just don't want to play tournaments.

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I believe Dr. Dave plays like an APA handicap #4.




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poolguy4u said:

I believe Dr. Dave plays like an APA handicap #4.

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Dave plays considerably better than that.

pj
chgo

Patrick Johnson said:

The ability to teach a skill doesn't come with the skill.

Teaching is a separate skill unto itself.

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CocoboloCowboy said:

Well said, and a truely great teacher is flexible enough to be aable to communicate with many people, who have many skill levels, motivation to learn, and difficulty understanding instructions.

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In fact, that’s the reason I quit teaching years ago. I played well enough, knew plenty, and could explain things well the way I understand them - but I didn’t have that essential teaching skill of being able to explain things in various ways for different students. I admire those who can.

pj
chgo

There's video of Dave beating the 10b ghost on YouTube, 7-2.
I'm an APA 9 and I don't think I'm a favorite to do that, not often.
I'd say he's at least at the high end of B players.

I think some people just like to look for an excuse to crap on instructors.
Which is a baffling mindset.

If someone's trying to say 'this instructor is a nobody so why should anyone listen to them?' ... Well, the person saying that is usually a nobody too. So why listen to them either?


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newcuer said:

Also, I have to say I have learned more from Dr. Dave and Tor's videos in the past few years than anything else to help my game. I just find it odd, they don't have a fargo.

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I can't speak for Tor, but I have played only in VNEA leagues and tournaments (local and national). I have never played in BCAPL leagues or CSI tournaments. I would like to have a FargoRating, and I actually tried to convince the VNEA leadership (I personally know some of the "top brass") to make arrangements to export all of their match data to the FargoRate system, but they were not very open to the idea. :frown:

Regards,
Dave

PS: If you want to judge my playing level, several videos of me playing can be found near the bottom of the page here:

Dr. Dave's pool bio

newcuer said:

Just bringing this up. I understand the argument that the best players don't necessarily make the best instructors, but you would think some of the more famous instructors and video content providers would at least have some sort of fargo rate.

Unless they are purposely afraid to get one?? But to be fair, some areas of the country don't use fargo (dominated by the APA, like here in Chicago) so maybe that's why?

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Or even a tournament match on YouTube at the very least. Should you allow someone to instruct you that can't beat you?

DecentShot said:

Or even a tournament match on YouTube at the very least. Should you allow someone to instruct you that can't beat you?

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Why do pro athletes have coaches?

BRussell said:

Why do pro athletes have coaches?

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I should have qualified. I am a sports junkie so I get it. But pool isn't like other sports. Its more like chess not the big 4. Obviously the bench coach for the Dodgers can't play better than Justin Turner, right? And etc etc etc.
But for pool? I want to be instructed by someone who can really still play.

Here is my .02
Barring any physical impairments, if an instructor is good enough to teach the basics of stance, grip, stroke, etc.... I would think they should be at least around a 525 in Fargo. They should be able to follow their own teachings and be at least a 525.
Age can also be a factor. I personally know a guy who was a world beater 30 years ago. He took many road players money over the years. He is pushing 70 years old now and he still plays ok but nothing like he used to.
Stan Shuffet comes to mind as a high Fargo that can also teach very well. I've heard Hunter Lombardo is a good teacher also, he has a high Fargo. There are many players with high Fargos that give lessons from time to time, but they usually don't travel around the country just giving lessons. These players would rather concentrate on playing and give lessons as a side line.
The few guys that focus solely on lessons instead of playing, probably don't play at a high level because they don't have the desire. They would rather improve other players skill.
I would advise anybody who wants to take lessons to shop around. Get some feedback from other players and ask if the instructor was worth the time/money for the lesson. Also, personalities come into play. Some instructors may not be a good fit because you just can't get along with them. Find one you can talk to casually and get along with. If you feel comfortable, take a few lessons.

Andrew Manning said:

On the one hand, I understand thinking that if they really knew how to take a player's game up to a very high level, they'd apply it to their own game. Therefore, if they don't play at least a certain speed, their methods might not actually work as well as they claim.

But also you have to remember the amount of time you have to put into the game to play at a very high level, and how time-consuming it must be to try to make any sort of living off of teaching this game. I doubt anyone trying to support themselves as a pool instructor has as much time to devote to their own practice as most of us do, much less as much as the players we idolize.

Thus I can easily understand them not wanting to be rated on Fargo, as this would be a rating they don't have time to maintain at a high level and yet which could damage their credibility and livelihood simply by existing.

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That's true. Also though you have to consider their age. Someone who is in their 60s now and focuses on instruction may not be able to play well but probably could play pretty sporty at one time even if they didn't win any pro events or play on the pro tour.

I'd probably avoid anyone who has never played well.

tucson9ball said:

Here is my .02
Barring any physical impairments, if an instructor is good enough to teach the basics of stance, grip, stroke, etc.... I would think they should be at least around a 525 in Fargo. They should be able to follow their own teachings and be at least a 525.
Age can also be a factor. I personally know a guy who was a world beater 30 years ago. He took many road players money over the years. He is pushing 70 years old now and he still plays ok but nothing like he used to.

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Good thoughts, and I agree.

Andrew Manning said:

On the one hand, I understand thinking that if they really knew how to take a player's game up to a very high level, they'd apply it to their own game. Therefore, if they don't play at least a certain speed, their methods might not actually work as well as they claim.

But also you have to remember the amount of time you have to put into the game to play at a very high level, and how time-consuming it must be to try to make any sort of living off of teaching this game. I doubt anyone trying to support themselves as a pool instructor has as much time to devote to their own practice as most of us do, much less as much as the players we idolize.

Thus I can easily understand them not wanting to be rated on Fargo, as this would be a rating they don't have time to maintain at a high level and yet which could damage their credibility and livelihood simply by existing.

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What difference does it make how they earn their living? We are all supporting ourselves doing something other than the pool pros and the pool bums. The pool bums aren't buying what these instructors are selling because they are broke. There aren't enough pros needing coaching to go around. So for the most part these instructors are teaching pool to working schlubs who can afford them and spend the vast majority of their time toiling for sustenance just like the pool teachers.

So if they have time to work on their game so should the instructors. I for one at a 600 fargo level am very hesitant to spend my money with a 550 instructor who can't even defeat me. Fix yourself first and prove it and then ask me to pay you to fix me.

This concept of course breaks down at the elite level of pro but these are not the players paying the bulk of the instructor world's bills.