Slip Stroke
- Thread starter BuddyWing
- Start date
Mosconi's slip stroke was pretty subtle but there was an old video of him doing an exhibition that clearly shows a slip stroke. I don't have the link. I saw it after someone on this forum posted it up.
He holds the cue a little forward.
On the last stroke, he slips his grip hand towards the bumper , then shoots.
There's a difference between slip stroke in reference to Mosconi and slip stroke as is most commonly referred.
The way we use the word today, slip stroke involves the sliding of the cue through the grip hand on the follow through.
Mosconi's slip stroke was a sliding of the cue through the grip hand on the backstroke.
Like another poster said, it's pretty subtle. You can see it at the 0:36 mark on the following:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIE5AOayYvI
Ralph Greenleaf also apparently had a similar slip stroke. You can see it at the 4:02 mark on the following:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqMUqyH1gY4&feature=related
It was a common style back then when straight pool was king. I don't recommend trying to imitate it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIE5AOayYvI
Ralph Greenleaf also apparently had a similar slip stroke. You can see it at the 4:02 mark on the following:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqMUqyH1gY4&feature=related
It was a common style back then when straight pool was king. I don't recommend trying to imitate it.
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I used it naturally, and had never heard of it till I was older. I mostly got out of it, but somtimes when I hit a gear, I notice I am doing it. Actually it works well, I do not know why. Search Cowboy Jimmy Moore, he used it all the time, and he is in the Hall Of Fame
http://www.billiardsdigest.com/showblogentry.php?id=39
http://www.billiardsdigest.com/showblogentry.php?id=39
someone has too much time on his hands....lol
Curious?
In your opinion-What would make this style undesireable? Are you speaking of all games or perhaps the rotation games where fewer close- shape shots come up? Just curious.
And thank you for the links-it does seem to be a subtle regrippng before the final forward stroke. Are they simultaneously tightening the bridge on the shaft to hold the cue in place while regripping further back on the butt?
Does it just add another complication to developing a repeatable stroke?
Thanks for your thoughts/opinion on this.
3railkick
PS: A local 14:1 senior player has this stroke. Had it since Johnson City era-a 'classic' stroke still used by this classy player.
In your opinion-What would make this style undesireable? Are you speaking of all games or perhaps the rotation games where fewer close- shape shots come up? Just curious.
And thank you for the links-it does seem to be a subtle regrippng before the final forward stroke. Are they simultaneously tightening the bridge on the shaft to hold the cue in place while regripping further back on the butt?
Does it just add another complication to developing a repeatable stroke?
Thanks for your thoughts/opinion on this.
3railkick
PS: A local 14:1 senior player has this stroke. Had it since Johnson City era-a 'classic' stroke still used by this classy player.
There is a guy not too far from me who has a pronounced slip stroke. The way he does it, the cue slides through his grip on the stroke itself, not the back stroke. Even when he hits the ball softly, he slides the cue through his grip. Strange to watch.
KMRUNOUT
KMRUNOUT
Jimmy Moore's was by far the most obvious "slip stoke" I've ever seen and It was a thing of beauty. I've tried to duplicate it just to see what it's like to play like that. It's hard to do well and obviously these guys did it subconsciously. I have however, played a few times trying it and it really worked. Feels strange at first especially if your one that normally holds your back hand somewhat firm. I'm what I would call "semi-loose" 
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I'm certainly not saying that Mosconi and Greenleaf had an undesirable stroke. For the average player, though, I think it's hard to control, to be consistent with it. At least, I've never been able to be consistent with it when I've tried it. Obviously it worked for these guys.
For what it's worth, I remember reading a post from a guy who played Mosconi in an exhibition in the 60's. He said that after the game, which Mosconi won of course, Willie showed the slip stroke to him and recommended that he use it. I can't quite remember what advantages he claimed for it.
LOL, I don't deny it.
That youtube footage of Greenleaf is the only film of him that I've ever found. A shame that most of it appears to be outtakes from a trick shot short where he's missing most of the time. The footage at the beginning showing Erwin Rudolph winning the championship appears to be recreated for the camera. No way would Greenleaf get up and shoot a long combination shot without studying it. I guess he had just lost and wasn't in a very good mood, because he didn't even try to make it look real.
BWTadpole said:
KMRUNOUT said:
I like different terminology to distinguish the two techniques:
"There's a difference between slip stroke in reference to Mosconi and slip stroke as is most commonly referred.
The way we use the word today, slip stroke involves the sliding of the cue through the grip hand on the follow through.
Mosconi's slip stroke was a sliding of the cue through the grip hand on the backstroke."
The way we use the word today, slip stroke involves the sliding of the cue through the grip hand on the follow through.
Mosconi's slip stroke was a sliding of the cue through the grip hand on the backstroke."
KMRUNOUT said:
"There is a guy not too far from me who has a pronounced slip stroke. The way he does it, the cue slides through his grip on the stroke itself, not the back stroke. Even when he hits the ball softly, he slides the cue through his grip. Strange to watch."
I like different terminology to distinguish the two techniques:
Slip stroke -- The grip hand slips back on the butt just prior to the forward stroke at the cue ball.
Stroke slip -- As the forward stroke at the cue ball is executed, the cue slips through the grip hand to some degree (a "throw" or "release and catch").
Stroke slip -- As the forward stroke at the cue ball is executed, the cue slips through the grip hand to some degree (a "throw" or "release and catch").
dave sutton
Banned
i used to play with an older man named ron about 10 years ago. he only played straight pool. he was a hundred ball runner and had a slip stroke in his backstroke. seeing it is baffling. how in the world does anyone make a ball like that. the entire idea of playing pool at a high level is to first be fundamentally sound. this stroke leaves alot of room for error
Guys I've played with a Slip Stroke all my life. Only until recent years, being a senior and not playing near enough I changed to a more conventional pendulum stroke. No matter but please do not confuse the "modern" as it was called Stroke Slip with a Slip Stroke.
Its just that, a Stroke Slip (letting the cue slide forward on the follow through), not a Slip Stroke (where the hand slides back on the butt end of the cue). Slip Stroke rs start forward on the cue and slide their hand back. The player determines how much. They increase bridge tension a little to hold the cue in place. They usually have a slight pause when their back hand reaches the desired position. They usually have a very light grip. They are in no hurry to rush the cue forward. That means no tension on the forward stroke. Which takes them through delivery and let the cue weight release. They may have a slight Stroke Slip as well at the end.
The Stroke Slippers only, do not have a Slip Stroke. If you care anything about pool history and want to learn something, please don't confuse these 2 terms.
I suggest its not a stroke you would want to learn or teach. Like anything it takes time and practice but we do that anyway no matter what stroke is used. For most just making precise contact with the C/B is enough of a test without the variables. However if you struggle with superior grip pressure LOL and don't get through the cue ball because of such -- you might want to take a walk on the wild side and experiment a little.
A long list of Champions have used this stroke with great success. The most notable being Jimmy "Cowboy" Moore . So once again at least give our Champions respect and know the difference between these two types of strokes.
Rod
Its just that, a Stroke Slip (letting the cue slide forward on the follow through), not a Slip Stroke (where the hand slides back on the butt end of the cue). Slip Stroke rs start forward on the cue and slide their hand back. The player determines how much. They increase bridge tension a little to hold the cue in place. They usually have a slight pause when their back hand reaches the desired position. They usually have a very light grip. They are in no hurry to rush the cue forward. That means no tension on the forward stroke. Which takes them through delivery and let the cue weight release. They may have a slight Stroke Slip as well at the end.
The Stroke Slippers only, do not have a Slip Stroke. If you care anything about pool history and want to learn something, please don't confuse these 2 terms.
I suggest its not a stroke you would want to learn or teach. Like anything it takes time and practice but we do that anyway no matter what stroke is used. For most just making precise contact with the C/B is enough of a test without the variables. However if you struggle with superior grip pressure LOL and don't get through the cue ball because of such -- you might want to take a walk on the wild side and experiment a little.
A long list of Champions have used this stroke with great success. The most notable being Jimmy "Cowboy" Moore . So once again at least give our Champions respect and know the difference between these two types of strokes.
Rod
It's seems
to allow you to have a short-to-medium bridge length to help with accuracy- but then after regripping-allow a longer follow through. Guys I have seen using this stroke seem to use it when they want a little crisper delivery and to get the cb to draw a little more without using a big stroke. Maybe the light grip pressure helps that draw action as well.
I see it used as a 'specialty' stroke situationally-not for every shot. Seems to have a purpose.
3 railkick
to allow you to have a short-to-medium bridge length to help with accuracy- but then after regripping-allow a longer follow through. Guys I have seen using this stroke seem to use it when they want a little crisper delivery and to get the cb to draw a little more without using a big stroke. Maybe the light grip pressure helps that draw action as well.
I see it used as a 'specialty' stroke situationally-not for every shot. Seems to have a purpose.
3 railkick
I recorded Wayne Norcross's stroke at DannyK's.
There is a lot of camera movement at the start of the tape, but hang in there.
Sometimes he uses slip stroke AND stroke slip in the same shot.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4837662076022711943#
There is a lot of camera movement at the start of the tape, but hang in there.
Sometimes he uses slip stroke AND stroke slip in the same shot.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4837662076022711943#
i recently took a lesson where the gentleman teaching me suggested a slip stoke to me. now i guess by what you're all saying here it is a stoke slip because i let it slide on the follow through but really that just seems like symantics, so for my purpose i call it a slip srtoke. the reason he suggested i use it is because i am fat as hell and on some shots my follow through was affected by my cue hitting my side. when i keep my grip hand in a set place the grip will hit my side on follow through (particullarly on long shots or draw shots where a longer follow through may be more desireable) thus stopping the follow through at best or at worst hitting hard enaough to change the path of the cue all together causing the cue to hit the cue ball now where near where i aimed. by letting the cue slip through my grip on the forward stoke there is no contact allowing for a nore pure stroke. it has done wonders for my shotmaking. his suggestion was to use it always but i find on short shots or shots that require more touch i can't use it.