Diamond Pro Am Cushions

I own a red label 9' diamond pro table (not the pro am) and have played on all manor and sizes of diamond tables over the years. Firstly, I would be shocked if diamond lessened the quality of any of their rails on any size or model of table.

Secondly, as for diamond "correcting" the rails from the red label to blue label models, this was a response to some vocal critics that the red label diamond banked differently (read banked short) compared to what many players were used to. John Brumback, who has won DCC bank titles on both red and blue tables alike told me when I asked that he really didn't care about the difference in the rails either way. For what its worth, his home 9' diamond is the TV table from the 2009 DCC where he beat Luat (if I am recalling correctly) in the finals.

My bottom line, Diamond has a fine product on offer and red and blue label's don't matter much, IMHO. Pool players love to gripe though and imagine many reasons why they do not excel at the game, so why not blame the table????

Kevin3824 said:

On a side note I think the promoter of the World 8 Ball tournament made the correct decision on table size. I picture 8 ball as being a home and bar game were I see 9 & 10 Ball as requiring a higher skill level. The congestion of a 7' table makes ball control far more essential.

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I used to think similarly about 8 ball being primarily a 7' game. I have since changed my opinion based on AZB member Atlarge's statistics showing that 8 ball on a 7' table has similar break and run out % on the pro level as they do on a 9' table. Therefore, to me 8 ball is great on either table.

As for what game is best to test the pros? I would say that none really get the job done. If I had to choose the best contest, then something modeled after the DCC all-around style would be best, with onepocket and banks and I would substitute rotation for the 9 ball.

Best,

JL

I'm 95% sure of the below:

Diamond uses Artemis cushions (the really expensive ones) on all of their competition 9' tables. On the 8' and 7' tables (including the competition models), they use the Diamond Black Cushion. It has a slightly different shape (the nose is sharper) and it costs much less.

This is true for both the red label and the blue label tables.

i like turtles

Kevin3824 said:

That is a high level of confidence. Can anyone from Diamond confirm or reject this once and for all?

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Diamond can confirm or deny, but it still does not change the fact that they are the best playing tables I've ever played on, their bar boxes included. They won my loyalty due to the quality and durability of their product. The fact that they support the game does not hurt either. God knows no other table manufacturer is.

Gonna.be interesting.
Those.blacks.are.made.for.Diamond exclusively?

iusedtoberich said:

I'm 95% sure of the below:

Diamond uses Artemis cushions (the really expensive ones) on all of their competition 9' tables. On the 8' and 7' tables (including the competition models), they use the Diamond Black Cushion. It has a slightly different shape (the nose is sharper) and it costs much less.

This is true for both the red label and the blue label tables.

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This is a true statement, 100% right.

realkingcobra said:

This is a true statement, 100% right.

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The discussion was also about shelf size. Can you confirm shelf is shorter (smaller) on BB version.

Nick B said:

The discussion was also about shelf size. Can you confirm shelf is shorter (smaller) on BB version.

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Where was the shelf depth questioned?

Came up in a BB thread. I mentioned and others. People keep claiming that both the 9 and the 7 Procut play the same.

Nick B said:

Came up in a BB thread. I mentioned and others. People keep claiming that both the 9 and the 7 Procut play the same.

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Ok, then no the slate shelf is shorteron the 7fts compared to the 9's. When the first 7fts came out, they had bigger pockets than Pro cut 4 1/2" and the miter angles were wider in the throat of the pocket which created a problem with balls sitting in the pocket. Because there was more slate shelf for the balls to sit on, there was situations in which the object ball could hide so deep in the pocket that if the cue ball was froze to the side rail, you couldn't hit the object ball, you'd have to spin the cue ball of the end rail and try to kick the object ball in that way. Over the years Diamond has shortened the pocket shelf I think 3 times to where it's at today, which is way more shallow than on the 9fts, which in turn makes the 7ft Pro Cut pocket a little more softer than the 9ft Pro Cut pockets with the same miter and down angles.

Kevin3824 said:

Thank you RKC. Any idea on how the blacks play as far as longevity compared to Artemis? Do the diamond blacks significantly reduce ball sped compared to Artemis?

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Ball speed is a funny misunderstanding by most, let me try and explain. Everytime an object ball or cue ball comes in contact with a cushion, it loses a little bit of speed, so when doing a 9 rail bank with the cue ball sending it around the table twice, it slows down a little more with each cushion the cue ball comes into contact with. Combine that loss of energy with each cushion contact with the distance the cue ball travels between banks and you have a continued slow down, until the cue ball stops rolling. Doing this 9 ball bank test on a 9ft, then again on a 7ft....it would appear that the 7ft is a faster playing table because the cue ball gets around the 9 banks sooner on a 7ft vs a 9ft if you timed both tables with a stop watch. The reason the 7ft appears to be faster is because there's less cue ball travel between banks....but at the end of the roll of the cue ball coming into on tact with the 9th rail, the cue ball speed is the same on both tables....and the cushions on the 9ft are Artemis while the cushions on the 7ft are the Diamond Black, both being a K55 profile. Until you involve the cushions on either table, they both play at the same exact speed. The speed of the cushion's is greatly effected by where the body of the cushion is when compared to the nose of the cushion, meaning it's just as import to aline the back of the cushion by having the orrect sub rail thickness which determines where that cushions is going to start out at, as well as the correct nose height that works with the sub rail, which places the body of the cushion behind that cushion nose height....combined together correctly....they directly control the energy of the cushions and how they're going to play. Overall, both cushions Diamond uses play great, but the main difference is between the nose of the cushions. The Artemis cushions have a more rounded nose, which means more ball contact, which means more friction, which translates to more angle with spin when a ball comes into contact with a cushion. AND, the 7ft appears to play faster....because there's less distance between cushions to slow the balls down.

realkingcobra said:

Ball speed is a funny misunderstanding by most, let me try and explain. Everytime an object ball or cue ball comes in contact with a cushion, it loses a little bit of speed, so when doing a 9 rail bank with the cue ball sending it around the table twice, it slows down a little more with each cushion the cue ball comes into contact with.

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I had a guy sit there and argue with me that the cue ball actually speeds up after it hits a cushion on a Red Label Diamond. I tried to explain to him that if that were true once you struck the cue ball hard enough to go up and down the table 2 times the cue ball would never stop. It would continue to gain speed until it A) left a trail of fire behind it or B) it finally gained so much speed it would just smash right thru the cushion and rail. :grin-square: It was unbelievable, no matter how you tried to explain that this just was not possible I could not reason with him whatsoever. :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
If it were true that the cue ball sped up would that not make it a perpetual motion machine??
Unfortunately I was not lucky enough to draw him in the tournament.

jalapus logan said:

For what its worth, his home 9' diamond is the TV table from the 2009 DCC where he beat Luat (if I am recalling correctly) in the finals.

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That's badass right there!

erhino41 said:

That's badass right there!

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Are you saying that JB or his table are badass? I vote both, lol. I''ve played quite a bit on it...well, rather, he's punished me quite a bit on it, lol. And yes, it's a red lablel diamond.

jalapus logan said:

Are you saying that JB or his table are badass? I vote both, lol. I''ve played quite a bit on it...well, rather, he's punished me quite a bit on it, lol. And yes, it's a red lablel diamond.

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You of all people should know that's it's the tv table from 2010. I beat some guy named Efren John B.

John Brumback said:

You of all people should know that's it's the tv table from 2010. I beat some guy named Efren John B.

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So true. I shall flog myself with the lashings of 20 cats of nine tails. :yikes:

P.s., almost time for some pool and fishing....