Down Rail Shots- Worst Advice Ever?

Bobkitty

Bobkitty

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I've come to realize (been taught by a master) the worst advice for hitting down the rail shots is to "hit the ball and rail at the same time" thus trying to keep the ball frozen to the rail all the way to the pocket. A much better way is to hit the OB with a slight over cut. In other words, the OB should be moving out from the rail 1/2" to 1" by the time it hits the pocket. Hitting the shot this way allows hitting it hard and allows for any cling and CIT. This method also insures the OB will go past the side pocket points on the side rail shots. To practice this, I put a 4" piece of 3/4" PVC sprinkler pipe about 6 inches from the pocket tucked under the rail. Then with the OB on the rail, the ball will hit the pipe is it isn't out at least 1/2" to clear the pipe. Try this just shooting the CB into the hole with a shot that spreads out from the rail. Depending on your table, you might get away with as much as 1.5"-2" out with big pockets. I can get a little over 1" out with 4.5" corner pockets.
 
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PhilosopherKing

PhilosopherKing

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I'm having a hard time imagining overcutting a frozen ball and not hitting the ball and rail at what, to the naked eye, seems like the same time.
 
Bobkitty

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
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PhilosopherKing said:
I'm having a hard time imagining overcutting a frozen ball and not hitting the ball and rail at what, to the naked eye, seems like the same time.
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I'm not sure of the physics but the "frozen to the rail" shot can be over cut slightly. Try it and you'll see. Maybe the rail is hit first but so slightly, it'll be hard to tell.
 
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Superiorduper

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I think it all depends on how severe the cut angle is. Other variables such as ball cleanliness or lack of changes the shot a little as well. Along with the size of the cue ball and OB's, it's not uncommon for a cue ball to be more worn than the rest of the balls.

This probably doesn't help but I've always just played this shot with the intent of "pinching" the OB, ie hitting both at the same time. Hitting with top english works as well, but may be impractical for position or scratching.
 
pogmothoin

pogmothoin

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Are you talking about hitting the rail first with the cue ball? That's what I'm thinking and that's not exactly a new thing. To the naked eye it does appear to be a simultaneous hit, a slight bit of inside helps I believe.
 
BC21

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The CB sinks into the cushion, slightly, then comes out a hair behind the OB, not really over-cutting it as much as simply throwing it a half degree or so down the rail. This works great for steeper angles, greater than 30°. Once it's a 1/2 ball shot you can simply aim to split the edge of the ball. On thicker shots I don't consider the rail a factor. I just aim to send the ball to the pocket. But if your aimer is off it's better to go in a little thin than too thick.
 
Icon of Sin

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When it comes to making the ball, I aim as if the rail isn't there... unless I'm playing rail first for whatever reason.

See Disclaimer...
 
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PoppaSaun

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I don't think it is completely correct advice, but it was the advice I received when I was 13. It was also the first shot at which I excelled.

So there's that.

Like so many things, it is beginner-level advice. It isn't like you go up to someone who has learned to cut balls and tell them this advice. You tell this to someone who is just barely beginning to take pool seriously. It is great advice for that person because it is very nearly correct and gives them actual visual points to look at, which helps their vision on other cuts.
 
fastone371

fastone371

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Whenever possible I will hit frozen rail shots with inside english, it seems to "glue" the object ball to the rail but they go right past the side pocket points without problem.
 
GeoEnvi

GeoEnvi

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Isn't this the "ONE shot out of 99" that most people say is incorrectly explained in that famous and well-regarded instructional book?
 
Bob Jewett

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PoppaSaun said:
I don't think it is completely correct advice, but it was the advice I received when I was 13. It was also the first shot at which I excelled.

So there's that.

Like so many things, it is beginner-level advice. It isn't like you go up to someone who has learned to cut balls and tell them this advice. You tell this to someone who is just barely beginning to take pool seriously. It is great advice for that person because it is very nearly correct and gives them actual visual points to look at, which helps their vision on other cuts.
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But the fact remains that if you do manage to hit the ball and the cushion at the same instant, contact-induced-throw will push the object ball into the cushion and you will miss the pocket completely for long shot, rattle the ball for medium shots, and maybe make the ball for short shots with ample pockets. Of course this assumes you do not have outside gearing side spin on the cue ball.

Telling a beginner to hit the ball and cushion at the same instant for frozen rail shots is very bad advice. It is better to tell them the truth.
 
Bob Jewett

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GeoEnvi said:
Isn't this the "ONE shot out of 99" that most people say is incorrectly explained in that famous and well-regarded instructional book?
Click to expand...
You mean this one? Yes, it is wrong, but I think it is not the only error.

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book collector

book collector

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You have to have a special "overcutting" shaft to produce this shot, LD shafts will not give the required angle of entry due to their stiffness.
In addition, you must line up 45 degrees off center, and pivot into the shot.
 
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Scott Lee

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Bob...As you well know, it's not unusual for pro players to have no idea of pool physics...let alone how to explain them! Just one of the reasons why pro players make poor instructors for the most part. There are a few exceptions, like Tony Robles! :D

Bob Jewett said:
You mean this one? Yes, it is wrong, but I think it is not the only error.

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