My grandpa
Darren Appleton's post on FB about the pro division at SBE
- Thread starter jhanso18
- Start date
My grandpa
Darren is spot on with how many could win this, 16-20 max.
I knew i had no chance, but this was my 1st event back playing pool again after my car accident and with 3 days practice i was happy how i played.
The only way players will learn to get to the level of Darren and others is to play in these events, but with the money dropping all the time, there will be less and less top fields and only a few real world class players, due to the expenses occurred for what you can win.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=393531
From a month ago --- too bad Darren didn't read this and save himself a trip and aggravation of the SBE.
From a month ago --- too bad Darren didn't read this and save himself a trip and aggravation of the SBE.
There was much uproar about how the added money was handled/advertised for the Swanee tournament and Mark Griffin and CSI took quite a bashing.
But here we have the '2015 Open 10-Ball Professional Players Championship' and it is a whopping $3,000 added in prize money (if they get 64 players).
$500 entry fee x 64 players = $32,000
PRIZE FUND:
1st: $10,000 Guaranteed & Trophy
2nd: $5000
3rd: $2500
4th: $2000
5-6th: $1750 ea.
7-8th: $1500 ea.
9-12th: $1250 ea.
13-16th: $1000 ea.
(based on field of 64 players)
Total Prize Pool $35,000
$3,000 Added and it is a Professional Pool Players Championship?Shouldn't there be some guidelines before someone can slap such titles onto their events?
This is a Mosconi Cup points event - one of the few on big tables. Again it is $3,000 added. Isn't Turning Stone $25,000 added and that wasn't a Mosconi Cup point event
And let's not leave out the Women -- Women's Open 9 Ball Professional Players Championship
$300 Entry Fee x 32 = $9,600
PRIZE FUND:
BASED ON 32 PLAYERS:
1st: $3000 Guaranteed & Trophy
2nd: $2000
3rd-4th: $1500 ea.
5-8th: $1000 ea.
(based on full field of 32 players)
So this Professional Championship Event is $2400 added. :boring2:
But wait - there's more. We also have the One Pocket Professional Players Championship.
32 players x $225 entry fee = $7,200
PRIZE FUND:
1st: $1600
2nd: $1200
3rd/4th: $800 ea.
5-8th: $500 ea.
(based on full field of 32 players)
$6,400 Prize Pool ------ so this Professional tournament not only doesn't have added money but they are taking out $800 in prize money.
And if you want to play in the one pocket event at the SBE along with the 10 ball, there is a chance that if you might have matches scheduled at the same time and be forced to forfeit one of them. IMPORTANT: If a conflict in match times does arise, you will be forced to choose one event to play and one to forfeit.
The only exception is if a player makes the final 8 players in two events. In this case, we will reschedule matches to allow the player to possibly win both events.
It continues to amaze me how smart (ie dumb) pool is.
p.s. Oh I forgot.....Your entry fee includes a 4-day Weekend Pass to the Super Billiards Expo, so even if you get eliminated in the first round you can still visit the Expo all weekend! Well that makes all the difference in the world.
dom_poppa
Banned
Damn you do, damn you don't when it comes to playing in these tournaments.
Since he is a "professional" and I am merely a "house pro", he should be happy to play in a tournament with amateurs, dress code or not.
I welcome new guys to play in our weekly tournaments.
The bottom line is money.
Since he is a "professional" and I am merely a "house pro", he should be happy to play in a tournament with amateurs, dress code or not.
I welcome new guys to play in our weekly tournaments.
The bottom line is money.
Many thanks to Darren Appleton.
For caring enough to comment. One has only to read all of the ‘what the heck is wrong with pool and/or what can be done to fix pool’ threads to realize that valid comment from a world class professional should be taken seriously.
For presenting your thoughts in a clear and candid way.
For showing real control in not reacting to those who misinterpret what you are saying and try to twist it to be about them. In particular, those who chose to take it as amateur bashing; they should read what is written and not try to present it as they are being somehow victimized.
For giving straightforward, open and honest opinion with little or no spin.
Speaking for myself, much appreciated. Now if only Alan Hopkins would be as forthcoming with his point of view.
Jerry
For caring enough to comment. One has only to read all of the ‘what the heck is wrong with pool and/or what can be done to fix pool’ threads to realize that valid comment from a world class professional should be taken seriously.
For presenting your thoughts in a clear and candid way.
For showing real control in not reacting to those who misinterpret what you are saying and try to twist it to be about them. In particular, those who chose to take it as amateur bashing; they should read what is written and not try to present it as they are being somehow victimized.
For giving straightforward, open and honest opinion with little or no spin.
Speaking for myself, much appreciated. Now if only Alan Hopkins would be as forthcoming with his point of view.
Jerry
AH really made that much(200K+) with this event??
I think theres a lot of behind the scene cost that people fail to consider.
I think the list of american pro's in the event was pretty deep. The event just failed to include the usual 5-6 more elite phillipine players and 4-5 more chinese/taiwan players.
I think theres a lot of behind the scene cost that people fail to consider.
I think the list of american pro's in the event was pretty deep. The event just failed to include the usual 5-6 more elite phillipine players and 4-5 more chinese/taiwan players.
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Darren is simply saying the same thing that "MANY" people have been saying on here for years. He commented on one very clear and very recent example that highlights the slow and continual collapse of professional pool in America.
Events continue to shrink and become less and less prestigious, the money and payouts continue to decrease in real values while inflation continues to amplify the destruction of professional pool as a viable living.
A normal person in a professional career generally expects to progress and advance in their professional and the prime earning years for those people will be in their late 40's and through their 50's. A pro pool player looks at their career in the opposite direction. A guy like Darren needs to make money and he needs to make it now, because he is in his prime and will soon see the slow eroding of his skills begin. You need to make most of your money "before" you hit your 40's and at that point you better have saved and invested most of your money you made during your prime wisely because having "Spent the last 15 years as a professional pool player" on your resume does not open too many doors as far as getting a viable good paying job.
For us fans on AZB? Our only stake in this for the most part is that we want to see top level pool in prestigious events. We want to see the best of the best do battle and see who comes out on top. The SBE pro event was indeed something of a weak event and it certainly does not get much attention of the pool fans of the world when compared to better run, higher purse, and higher caliber fielded events. It would certainly seem that Allen has decided he does not care that much if his pro event is seem as a premier event or that it gets a strong field for the fans to watch.
Events continue to shrink and become less and less prestigious, the money and payouts continue to decrease in real values while inflation continues to amplify the destruction of professional pool as a viable living.
A normal person in a professional career generally expects to progress and advance in their professional and the prime earning years for those people will be in their late 40's and through their 50's. A pro pool player looks at their career in the opposite direction. A guy like Darren needs to make money and he needs to make it now, because he is in his prime and will soon see the slow eroding of his skills begin. You need to make most of your money "before" you hit your 40's and at that point you better have saved and invested most of your money you made during your prime wisely because having "Spent the last 15 years as a professional pool player" on your resume does not open too many doors as far as getting a viable good paying job.
For us fans on AZB? Our only stake in this for the most part is that we want to see top level pool in prestigious events. We want to see the best of the best do battle and see who comes out on top. The SBE pro event was indeed something of a weak event and it certainly does not get much attention of the pool fans of the world when compared to better run, higher purse, and higher caliber fielded events. It would certainly seem that Allen has decided he does not care that much if his pro event is seem as a premier event or that it gets a strong field for the fans to watch.
dom_poppa
Banned
I think he picked the wrong tree to bark at.
First and foremost the Super Billiards Expo is an industry trade show and it is promoted as such. If you go on their website, they talk about expansion and new areas for vendors. You are going to this exposition to see products. You are not going to watch a pro tournament even though some do. I believe people are more interested in their own matches than to go and watch a pro player.
For example, in golf, there are a handful of major tournaments. You won't see Phil Mickelson or other lesser pros complain why a country club in the middle of nowhere is not prestigious enough.
Remember, people are going to the SBE and there happens to be a tournament going on. They are not going to a tournament and the SBE is going on.
What we have here is Darren Appleton wanting to piggy back the success of SBE and turn it to a prestigious event. It is not happening and the promoter is not to blame. He is doing this for the industry and the amateur players around the world who want to see great cues and products.
Whats awesome to me is at least one of the players on that list b!tched to me that the $5000+Hotel TAR was putting for two guys to play was not enough money.
But jetting to Philly, paying a nickel entry to play slop 10 ball with no stream in a warehouse with $3k added makes sense. Pool is the best.
Darren is one of the players I pay attention too when he criticizes something. Pretty easy to trace this SBE pro event decline back to what started the ball rolling. Thank the ABP.
But jetting to Philly, paying a nickel entry to play slop 10 ball with no stream in a warehouse with $3k added makes sense. Pool is the best.
Darren is one of the players I pay attention too when he criticizes something. Pretty easy to trace this SBE pro event decline back to what started the ball rolling. Thank the ABP.
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Did you miss the part about going from $25K added with decent streaming to $3k added in the dark? It used to BE a prestigious event that has been turned into a joke.
All Daz is saying is that it sucks the event has gone downhill. I agree with him.
EDIT: And yes I realize agreeing with the guy whose face is in my sig line isnt that big a leap but I would be the first to disagree if he was spouting the nonsense a few in this thread try to make him out to be.
I would like to see the players come together and just not play the event but we know there will be some knowing it will be light on pros and play to steal the little monies. I don't think that event makes any difference to Hopkins bottom line but perhaps if no pros are there maybe it would hurt attendance but I am not so sure of it as its more geared towards amateurs and vendors which makes money.
No pros in a pro event there? Yeah, that probably does not hurt the event much.
No pros at the SBE at all? That would hurt the event immensely. Cue vendors, sponsors, and fans alike want to see the pros at the booths helping to promote and support the various equipment. They want to have a chance to play a game against a pro on a table in a booth or watch a pro demonstrate the newest in jump cue design.
The 25k added event gave the pros a reason to be there over and above helping to support the sport and their sponsors. Now unless a sponsor is coughing up quite a lot of money more and more of the pros may decide to go elsewhere during that week and that "WILL" hurt the SBE quite a lot.
The professionals being there helps the SBE be a success, and it is not completely without reason that the pros ask for a little bit of that success to remain in the form of a decent money added pro event, like the SBE once had.
Agree with Darren. Maybe inappropriate for him to complain in public after taking part in event
But hope more elite pros will do same thing and boycott these amateur 7 foot events . There should be limit /quota to number of Open events a pro can take part in each year .
Other than that pros should play in pro events and amateur in amateur events
I would rather see pros flipping burgers than debase themselves playing with 2 bit sadomasochistic fanboys who have entry fees to burn:grin-square:
But hope more elite pros will do same thing and boycott these amateur 7 foot events . There should be limit /quota to number of Open events a pro can take part in each year .
Other than that pros should play in pro events and amateur in amateur events
I would rather see pros flipping burgers than debase themselves playing with 2 bit sadomasochistic fanboys who have entry fees to burn:grin-square:
Wrong !
I want the event I played in from 2009-2012. Back that's all..
Even if the prize money as dropped by half or more . The rest of it can be run the way it was 3 years ago.
That's all.
It's just sad it's gone from a good event for pros on the calendar to a poor event.. That's it over and out .��
I don't need the sbe to survive but for the interest of the American players they need it more than me..
Darren
Ps if I play in it or not I will be there anyway for my sponsors something I might focus on next year. ��
As always someone that's knows what his taking about and understands pool..
Clap clap.
If we had 50 of you running pool I would be a millionaire now
Darren
Totally agree .. And most of the players agree with me also. Including Shane vb and other top dogs
Daz
Just for the record - since it is being reported incorrectly here: the event paid out a total of $41,000, to the top 24 players (more than what was advertised). With 64 entrants at $500 a pop, that is $9000 over the collected prize pool. That doesn't factor in the paid entry that the previous year's winner always receives and the entry that was donated to the winner of Oscar Dominguez' tour. All in all, $10,000 in the prize pool that did not come from players.
I appreciate the feedback that is being provided here, even if it may be negative. We do listen and try to do our best to improve. Admittedly, the last few years have been tough because we had to move out of our 20-year home (that was almost perfect for our event) and find and move into new venues. We put a lot of thought into planning and promoting every event - but we don't get dress rehearsals. We can't set everything up and run a test-run. We can't predict how many people will turn out and/or whether or not a new venue will succeed. Once we get re-established in a new home, we will learn and adapt and make everything as good as we can again. What we can do is offer a guaranteed first place payout, and make sure that everyone gets paid, as promised. If anyone thinks that organizing and executing an event of this magnitude is easy and/or does not involve staggering costs - both obvious and hidden, then please, by all means - start another one. The west coast would be a great place to start.
I do not wish to get into a long messaging battle on here - mostly because I know they never turn out well for either side, nor do I have the time right now. My father is old school, he doesn't read forums or use social media sites. But he listens, and he talks to anyone and everyone. I feel this matter could have been addressed with a phone call or a private message (as one other prominent player chose to do) ... if you, Darren, or anyone else wishes to discuss thoughts about the pro event, or any other aspect of the expo, feel free to call him - the number is widely available on our website. He answers each and every call himself. You can reach him at (609)652-6116. I handle emails and any type of online correspondence - and you can send those to info@superbilliardsexpo.com. Starting discussions online with someone who is never online doesn't seem like much of a fair battle to me, or even something that would qualify as a "discussion" ... If you want answers or meaningful discourse or just want to make your feelings known, why not go straight to the source?
Thanks again to everyone for being a part of the Super Billiards Expo!
dom_poppa
Banned
What I see here is a successful event such as the SBE being bashed because they can't make the tournament as prestigious as some may want it. As previously explained from me and others, it is first and foremost a trade show and will always remain one regardless if a pro tournament exist or not.
Also, Mr. Appleton mentioned that he may just forgo the tournament and do his sponsorship duties. I think he should do that. The point of SBE, in my opinion is to promote the industry, and I don't think they need a pro tournament to do so. The pros will always be there, how so?...sponsorship obligations.
If the pros are already going to be there due to obligations then a tournament is just a bonus paycheck. Look at Jeanette Lee, she did her sponsorship obligations and ignored the tournament. She didn't go around complaining that the tournament was not prestigious enough for her to play.
What it all boils down to is MONEY. I don't believe the problem is how the tournament is being handled nor do I believe dress code is the issue. I feel that players are trying to piggyback an event like SBE and want that a bigger payout. People have mentioned the payouts use to be bigger at this show but it is no longer. So what...promoters are going to do what is best for the show and if a pro tournament don't meet those demands than we still have the amateur tournaments. Which are very entertaining btw.
P.S. I am a fan of TAR and I enjoy watching Darren play.
Also, Mr. Appleton mentioned that he may just forgo the tournament and do his sponsorship duties. I think he should do that. The point of SBE, in my opinion is to promote the industry, and I don't think they need a pro tournament to do so. The pros will always be there, how so?...sponsorship obligations.
If the pros are already going to be there due to obligations then a tournament is just a bonus paycheck. Look at Jeanette Lee, she did her sponsorship obligations and ignored the tournament. She didn't go around complaining that the tournament was not prestigious enough for her to play.
What it all boils down to is MONEY. I don't believe the problem is how the tournament is being handled nor do I believe dress code is the issue. I feel that players are trying to piggyback an event like SBE and want that a bigger payout. People have mentioned the payouts use to be bigger at this show but it is no longer. So what...promoters are going to do what is best for the show and if a pro tournament don't meet those demands than we still have the amateur tournaments. Which are very entertaining btw.
P.S. I am a fan of TAR and I enjoy watching Darren play.
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