How to ship a cue with ivory

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
I am selling a JW cue that has ivory diamonds, joint and ferrules (it's all pre-ban ivory). Will I have a problem shipping this cue out of California and what is the best carrier to do this with? What about shipping overseas? Can I use USPS Priority Mail or will there be a problem? Any help with this is greatly appreciated. It's a valuable cue and I don't want to lose it.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't think I would do it. I also don't think pre-ban status has and positive attributes anymore.

I'd rather drop the price and have a hand to hand sale.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am selling a JW cue that has ivory diamonds, joint and ferrules (it's all pre-ban ivory). Will I have a problem shipping this cue out of California and what is the best carrier to do this with? What about shipping overseas? Can I use USPS Priority Mail or will there be a problem? Any help with this is greatly appreciated. It's a valuable cue and I don't want to lose it.
Not worth the potential pitfalls imo. This has became a grey area full of land-mines.
 

pfd studios

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Shipping I very out of California

Jay, the short answer is - DON'T DO IT !!

You might want to start by reviewing what happened to Ernie - AKA - Gina Cue.
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
Angel: don’t do it Ed!

Demon: put heat shrink tubing on it and trim the edges and ship the mofo as a breaker 🤣.

Choose wisely toupee jay


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I bought a cue from Jerry Rauenzahn which had ivory ferrules. He said that he ships cues all the time with ivory ferrules via USPS Expedited without issue. I was nervous it was going to get confiscated but Jerry took full responsibility and the cue arrived safe and sound. Now, if I were selling a cue with ivory, there is no way I would ship it. It's a roll of the dice at best. Jay, there are plenty of pool players here in LA. Just be patient, you'll find a local buyer soon enough.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Jay, the short answer is - DON'T DO IT !!

You might want to start by reviewing what happened to Ernie - AKA - Gina Cue.

That involved many cues in checked baggage at a major airport (LAX) on a flight destined for Asia. They were asking to get caught. This is only one cue in regular packaging. Are they actually X-Raying everything and opening up packages when they see a cue inside? I can't imagine Fedex doing this or even the post office in their own Priority Mail package.
 
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iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't know if I'd do it...

But if I did, I think I'd use FedEX, with no insurance, but with signature required for delivery. I'd eat the cue if it was actually lost or stollen by a fedEX employee. Thats better than going to jail. And the signature upon delivery would mean the buyer could not say it never arrived.

I'd also put the regular pool shipping tube inside of a big rectangular box, so that it doesn't look anything like a pool cue.
 

marek

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Especially when you say that the cue is valuable and you dont want to lose it - DONT DO IT Jay! The risk of anything going wrong is too high. If I understood your recent post about your investments right you are really not pressed to sell any cue so why take the gamble?!? :confused::confused::confused:
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You aren't going to fool FedEx by using a different size box to throw them off.

The arguement could be made that contents mismatched to box size would actually be an indicator of a of something to be looked into further.

Outliers, ya know? Better to blend in,
Imo.
I don't know if I'd do it...

But if I did, I think I'd use FedEX, with no insurance, but with signature required for delivery. I'd eat the cue if it was actually lost or stollen by a fedEX employee. Thats better than going to jail. And the signature upon delivery would mean the buyer could not say it never arrived.

I'd also put the regular pool shipping tube inside of a big rectangular box, so that it doesn't look anything like a pool cue.
 

Icon of Sin

I can't fold, I need gold. I re-up and reload...
Silver Member
I don't know if I'd do it...

But if I did, I think I'd use FedEX, with no insurance, but with signature required for delivery. I'd eat the cue if it was actually lost or stollen by a fedEX employee. Thats better than going to jail. And the signature upon delivery would mean the buyer could not say it never arrived.

I'd also put the regular pool shipping tube inside of a big rectangular box, so that it doesn't look anything like a pool cue.

LOL, are pool cues that hot of an item that you would put it in a different sized box? I could probably think of at least 20 things that could fit inside a standard shipping box that you would use for a cue which dont contain ivory.

Jay, while chances are that nothing would happen, I personally wouldnt risk it. Not worth a massive fine for a few grand sale.
 
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TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
Jay,

For sure I wouldn't send it overseas. There is some chance it will be confiscated if inspected.

There has been some relief for certain items as of 2016. There is a "de minimus" category exemption. Here is what that clause covers:

** To qualify for the de minimis exception, manufactured or handcrafted items must meet all of the following criteria:
(i) If the item is located within the United States, the ivory was imported into the United States prior to January 18, 1990, or was imported into the United States under a Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) pre-Convention certificate with no limitation on its commercial use;
(ii) If the item is located outside the United States, the ivory was removed from the wild prior to February 26, 1976;
(iii) The ivory is a fixed or integral component or components of a larger manufactured or handcrafted item and is not in its current form the primary source of the value of the item, that is, the ivory does not account for more than 50 percent of the value of the item;
(iv) The ivory is not raw;
(v) The manufactured or handcrafted item is not made wholly or primarily of ivory, that is, the
ivory component or components do not account for more than 50 percent of the item by
volume;
(vi) The total weight of the ivory component or components is less than 200 grams; and
(vii) The item was manufactured or handcrafted before the effective date of this rule.



Many older pool cues would fall into this category. This rule was initiated to protect items like guns with ivory handles and musical instruments, artifacts that are not exempt under the 100 year old antique clause. 200 grams is 7 ounces, and there is no way the ferrules, joint and thin inlays would come close to that.

More to follow in the next post.
 
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TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
Here is a further explanantion of why the "de minius" exemption was created, according to the American Society of Appraisers:

What types of items are likely to qualify for the de minimis exception? When we proposed the 200-gram limit we had a particular suite of items in mind. The following types of items may qualify for the de minimis exception: many musical instruments (including many keyboard instruments, with ivory keys, most stringed instruments and bows with ivory parts or decorations, and many bagpipes, bassoons and other wind instruments with ivory trim); most knives and guns with ivory grips; and certain household and decorative items (including teapots with ivory insulators, measuring tools with ivory parts or trim, baskets with ivory trim, walking sticks and canes with ivory decorations, and many furniture pieces with ivory inlay, etc.). However, to qualify for the de minimis exception, all of the above criteria must be met (either A or B and CG).
What types of items are not likely to qualify for the de minimis exception? Examples of items that we do not expect would qualify for the de minimis exception include chess sets with ivory chess pieces (both because we would not consider the pieces to be fixed or integral components of a larger manufactured item and because the ivory would likely be the primary source of value of the chess set), an ivory carving on a wooden base (both because it would likely be primarily made of ivory and the ivory would likely be the primary source of its value), and ivory earrings or a pendant with metal fittings (again both because they would likely be primarily made of ivory and the ivory would likely be the primary source of its value).
How do I demonstrate that my item meets the criteria to qualify for the de minimis exception? To qualify for the de minimis exception, an item must meet the criteria provided above. We consider an item to be made wholly or primarily of ivory if the ivory component or components account for more than 50 percent of the item by volume. Likewise, if more than 50 percent of the value of an item is attributed to the ivory component or components we consider the ivory to be the primary source of the value of that item. Value can be ascertained by comparing a similar item that does not contain ivory to one that does (for example, comparing the price of a basket with ivory trim/decoration to the price of a similar basket without ivory components). Though not required, a qualified appraisal or another method of documenting the value of the item and the relative value of the ivory component, including, information in catalogs, price lists, and other similar materials, can also be used. We will not require ivory components to be removed from an item to be weighed.
 
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iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I suggested the different sized box not to avoid a theft from FedEX, but rather to avoid any screening by FedEX for ivory.

I don’t think any of us here know what goes on behind the scenes and how the shipping companies are interpreting and possibly aiding in enforcing the new ivory rules.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I suggested the different sized box not to avoid a theft from FedEX, but rather to avoid any screening by FedEX for ivory.

I don’t think any of us here know what goes on behind the scenes and how the shipping companies are interpreting and possibly aiding in enforcing the new ivory rules.

Not sure why theft entered into discussion.

I GUARANTEE FedEx looks into some things because they don't fit into 'normal' shipping behaviors.
 

lakeman77

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Domestic, via Fed Ex, UPS, packed well in a hard tube, I doubt you have a problem. They have bigger fish to fry.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
Hannibal didn’t have all that much problem importing ivory to Italy....

8CF1A220-B99C-4F28-A3CA-C72A4A1A90BC.jpeg

...I guess things were simpler back then...
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Domestic, via Fed Ex, UPS, packed well in a hard tube, I doubt you have a problem. They have bigger fish to fry.

Based on Tate's input, sounds like it is a can-do.

That said, you always have to be concerned that an individual without proper knowledge gets ahold of it.

A noteworthy amount of risk, imo. Too much for me to be comfortable with.
 

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jay.....anyone living in CA cannot sell or buy or gift any cue of any age at any time to anyone.
Only a CITES certificate gets you an exemption if the cue has any ivory, even just a ferrule.

The law is clear and packages are periodically checked so be careful because CA Fish & Wildlife
will prosecute you if the sale is detected. That's the sole reason I do not own a Hercek cue rite now.


Matt B.

p.s. Remember that California has the most strict law on banning ivory more restrictive than other states & Fed'l Gov't.
Before taking bad advice, it's your money at risk & attorney cost as this is a crime if caught but all advice on AZ is free.
 
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