You become more insane with every post Flash.
Mr 600
- Thread starter billlaur
- Start date
You become more insane with every post Flash.
And if that, or any of the other purely speculative things you keep bringing up, happened then nobody will suggest the run is valid. For now it is no more or less unusual for a person to speculate that in fact it happened. Assuming it happened as reported is not saying it definately did.
That said, I think we'll soon find out it did happen as described and we can move on to debating about whether it means anything.
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Excellent point PT. But, by today's political theater standards, if you can't provide evidence against any accusation, you are guilty just the same. The BCA has already seen the unedited version of the tape, to me, that is as if a judge has reviewed the evidence and made their decision
But, hey, if he even so much as even tinkled during that run, we got him !!!!
If Mosconi was such the table inspecting stickler as previously mentioned, then these are "fouls" and the run wouldn't be 526...
...but what does "bounced of the of the pocket" actually look like. Did he fire it at the hole and it never actually went down and flew off the table? Or did he make the ball and it fell out the bottom (Gold Crown Style). If it's the latter, the ball stays down and it counts... if it's the other, then it s a foul.
Excellent point PT. But, by today's political theater standards, if you can't provide evidence against any accusation, you are guilty just the same. The BCA has already seen the unedited version of the tape, to me, that is as if a judge has reviewed the evidence and made their decision
But, hey, if he even so much as even tinkled during that run, we got him !!!!
I'm pretty sure the pockets doubled as urinals. That way he didn't have to leave the table. I feel for the rack man.
Jeff
I have no doubt that if he was alive today and in his prime, he would still be the best.
I do agree about the internet thing though.
I remember a time when we had to either see it ourselves (in person), hear about it or read about it.
To me, ^^^^^^ was both an advantage and disadvantage depending on how we look at it.
Jeff
Genius is genius, regardless of the era.
I know some people don't want to hear that but if you'd seen him play you know how remarkable his talent was. No one today is close -- that's not hero worship, it has nothing to do with the 526, it's just fact.
Lou Figueroa
I guess some people are going to need the level of proof Dave Chappelle was looking for as a potential R. Kelly trial juror, starts at 1:45, but the whole skit is hilarious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXc3O6GMZt0
Chappelle's Show - Celebrity Trial Jury Selection
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXc3O6GMZt0
Chappelle's Show - Celebrity Trial Jury Selection
I understand Lou. Anyone that knows anything at all about Willie, 14.1 or pool in general knows exactly just how amazing he was as a player, not to mention as a person.
BTW, I did get to see him. Unfortunately, it wasn't during his prime. Actually, it was way after his prime.
Prime or not, it wouldn't have mattered because I was to young to really understand what I was witnessing. My grandfather took me to see him.
My dad always claimed that my grandfather had a cue signed by Willie but, the mysterious cue was never found. I'm certain that if grandpa had of had a cue signed by Willie, it would have been kept and passed down. My grandpa idealized Willie.
I've always acknowledged Willie as one of, if not the best player to ever play 14.1.
Having said all that, I still believe that John is a better player than some give him credit for. Sure, he'll never fill Willie's shoes but, then again, I'm fairly certain that nobody else currently playing could come close either.
I just wish I could say that I don't even think about my run till I got to 250ish balls. Must be nice.
Jeff
Edit:
I forgot to mention that I remember my grandfather on several occasions saying that he didn't idolize Willie just because he was great at pool. I remember grandpa saying he respected Willie a lot simply because of the kind of man he was.
My dad always said the same thing. My dad wasn't a pool player but, I guess he heard enough talk about Willie while he was growing up to know a lot about him.
Anyways, yep, it must have been great to witness something so great and be old enough and knowledgeable enough to understand just what you was watching.
I'm jealous of the people that hqd that honor.
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The post above is the first time I can recall Willie being regarded as a great person, other than his pool playing.
Not that that there's anything wrong with that, he's been called upon to put balls in holes, not change diapers or drive the blind to church.
Not that that there's anything wrong with that, he's been called upon to put balls in holes, not change diapers or drive the blind to church.
Fwiw...
We have some pretty intelligent people hanging around on AZ, so it surprises me that many of them choose to believe something as important to us as the setting of a new world record straight pool run of, an amazing 626, without actually being able to see the complete unedited video in it's entirety, especially since the person claiming that record went through great lengths to record it on video. I fail to see how viewing the video can possibly be an unreasonable request, especially when one exists but remains intentionally unavailable.
One of the repeated counterarguments being raised against requiring the release and viewing of the unedited video as a prerequisite for verifying and accepting JS's 626 ball run, is the claim that the same people making the request for JS’s video all accept Mosconi’s record based solely upon an eyewitness affidavit and without having either personally witnessed or having seen a video of it. Considering the time and totally different circumstances of Mosconi’s run this is an absolutely invalid argument, about as invalid an argument as asking to see a video of the burning of Rome, or some other event that occurred spontaneously, before our time, and before video was even invented or readily available, as a requirement for belief.
There are legal standards governing the weight and acceptance of various forms of evidence; third party testimony is considered hearsay, and not even allowed, or considered, as evidence in a court of law; eyewitness testimony, while permitted, is weighed against the potential bias and credibility of those witnesses, and unedited video, if available, would certainly be required viewing before any decision could be reached. Even the Guinness Book Of World Records, with it’s thousands of insignificant records has video as one of it’s requirements for admission. Should a world record straight pool record require less? Personal feelings and emotions hold zero weight. Why would anyone choose to accept any standard other than the highest standard of evidence in this situation?
We have some pretty intelligent people hanging around on AZ, so it surprises me that many of them choose to believe something as important to us as the setting of a new world record straight pool run of, an amazing 626, without actually being able to see the complete unedited video in it's entirety, especially since the person claiming that record went through great lengths to record it on video. I fail to see how viewing the video can possibly be an unreasonable request, especially when one exists but remains intentionally unavailable.
One of the repeated counterarguments being raised against requiring the release and viewing of the unedited video as a prerequisite for verifying and accepting JS's 626 ball run, is the claim that the same people making the request for JS’s video all accept Mosconi’s record based solely upon an eyewitness affidavit and without having either personally witnessed or having seen a video of it. Considering the time and totally different circumstances of Mosconi’s run this is an absolutely invalid argument, about as invalid an argument as asking to see a video of the burning of Rome, or some other event that occurred spontaneously, before our time, and before video was even invented or readily available, as a requirement for belief.
There are legal standards governing the weight and acceptance of various forms of evidence; third party testimony is considered hearsay, and not even allowed, or considered, as evidence in a court of law; eyewitness testimony, while permitted, is weighed against the potential bias and credibility of those witnesses, and unedited video, if available, would certainly be required viewing before any decision could be reached. Even the Guinness Book Of World Records, with it’s thousands of insignificant records has video as one of it’s requirements for admission. Should a world record straight pool record require less? Personal feelings and emotions hold zero weight. Why would anyone choose to accept any standard other than the highest standard of evidence in this situation?
Sorry Jimmy, I agree with you 99.9% of the time... but the BCA already reviewed the unedited tape and confirmed it's the new exhibition record.
The different standards of evidence have been discussed. And a lot more efficiently, I'd add.
It is understandable to me that some would reserve acceptance of 626 until they see evidence.
To contend that wiping of a cb or racking at the opposite end of the table somehow means 626 is invalid is bar table rules, imo.
It is understandable to me that some would reserve acceptance of 626 until they see evidence.
To contend that wiping of a cb or racking at the opposite end of the table somehow means 626 is invalid is bar table rules, imo.
I think the notion that those who believe it happened are completely convinced and not also waiting for the video is conjecture. Until the video is released a person has to guess based on limited evidence.
There is some evidence it happened and zero that it didn't so we choose to assume for now that it did happen. If I had a vested interest in it not having happened maybe I would rationalize that there was some reason to believe it didn't happen.
We are all waiting for the video to be sure. Suggesting that speculating that it probably did is somehow crazy (and the work of mysterious government, BCA or Chinese influence) and speculation that it didn't is somehow the sign of a free thinking individual...well I just don't get it.
Unless of course there was some sort of deep rooted desire for it not to be true clouding things...but there's none of that now is there?
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I understand and appreciate that RJ, but simply because the BCA "confirmed" the run as being the new world record doesn't mean that everyone else has to accept their decision without knowing, and seeing, the same evidence that they claim to have seen. Nor do I know whether they have the final and last word as to making that determination. Is there not a higher "court", perhaps, even, the court of public opinion and common sense? I've seen detailed "expert, state certified" witness testimony rejected in court, why should I blindly accept anything less than seeing the actual, unedited, video for myself? I still believe that, because of the extended season, Roger Maris did not break Babe Ruth's home run record, rather, that he created a new and different record.
I have no vested or personal interest here, and I'm not taking the position that JS did, or didn't, establish a new "world record", perhaps, because of different circumstances, he actually established a different "world record", or because of a technicality, he did neither. Without seeing for myself, I cannot made an accurate and intelligent determination. Nothing sinister here, I simply believe that the unedited video should be made public for all to see and evaluate for ourselves. I think that's a very reasonable request and the delay in releasing the video muddies the issue even further.
And by now he might have moved to an 8-foot table, which was being discussed. However others may feel about the size being a factor, John feels the smaller table is a lot easier.
So, I'm sure if you offer JS a $1000, he would gladly send you the unedited tape. Let me know what he says
Right now, they don't need to release a free tape to anyone right now. Let them figure out if and how they can market this. Best way is to give it out with every new cue purchase, or something like that. Because most folks will not pay for it, but as part as a promotion, advertising their latest cue technology, that is now part of the world record 14.1 run, that would work.