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Opinions on "forced win" rule.
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Mr. Bond
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Opinions on "forced win" rule. - 01-15-2018, 02:23 PM

Player vs player in a match..and their score is tied, hill hill.

Player A breaks a rule that, by the book, automatically gives him a loss.

Player B, by the book, gets the win and the match

BUT player B doesnt want to win by a technicality and insists on playing the final game anyway.

Question: should a player have the option of insisting that a final game be played, or should a player be "forced" to take the win.
  
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thepavlos
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01-15-2018, 02:48 PM

If player B insists and Player A doen't mind I don't see why not since A is getting a second chance.


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Bob Jewett
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01-15-2018, 02:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Bond View Post
Player vs player in a match..and their score is tied, hill hill.

Player A breaks a rule that, by the book, automatically gives him a loss.

Player B, by the book, gets the win and the match

BUT player B doesnt want to win by a technicality and insists on playing the final game anyway.

Question: should a player have the option of insisting that a final game be played, or should a player be "forced" to take the win.
If this is a tournament and there is a ref or a tournament director, he is bound by duty to enforce the rules. Presumably the players have agreed to abide by the rules. That means they are supposed to follow them, too.

If it is a private game or there is no official, the players decide themselves what to do. If there is a calcutta, Heaven help the "polite" guy.


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01-15-2018, 02:50 PM

I greatly admire the guy who insisted they play it out, and have done similar things myself when a opponent is late to a match, but at this level of play the rules should be strictly enforced by the tournament director.

While in a sense it would have backfired in this scenario, the purpose of that rule is to make sure the spectators get to see the last ball drop.

I know I was annoyed at how many games Earl conceded to Darren in that 4 pocket match and wish they would have forced them to play out each game.

Last edited by Jerry R; 01-15-2018 at 03:39 PM.
  
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01-15-2018, 02:50 PM

If it's a refereed match, like Turning Stone was, Billy, I mean the player who committed the foul, should lose.
  
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01-15-2018, 02:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Bond View Post
Player vs player in a match..and their score is tied, hill hill.

Player A breaks a rule that, by the book, automatically gives him a loss.

Player B, by the book, gets the win and the match

BUT player B doesnt want to win by a technicality and insists on playing the final game anyway.

Question: should a player have the option of insisting that a final game be played, or should a player be "forced" to take the win.
Hm.. sounds familiar LOL Turning Stone maybe... maybe...

Maybe not exactly the same thing, but I have seen a video of snooker sportsmanship where the player would overrule the ref ruling and refuse to take the foul or the other player would not accept a foul that was called on the opponent.


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01-15-2018, 03:40 PM

As player B might find the victory bittersweet, would player A be pleased by winning on a second chance?


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01-15-2018, 04:32 PM

Spectators should not have any say in the matter. The same as yelling out "Shoot the 2, not the 3." If a player is about to shoot the wrong ball. "Foul, I saw it from way up here." "Hey, you forgot to mark up your point."
If you're watching the game as an observer, keep your mouth shut and your opinion of a broken rule doesn't matter anyway.

If you claim you're just trying to clean up the image of pool, forget about it. That has been going on for 60 years with no progress.


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01-15-2018, 04:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cracktherack View Post
Spectators should not have any say in the matter. The same as yelling out "Shoot the 2, not the 3." If a player is about to shoot the wrong ball. "Foul, I saw it from way up here." "Hey, you forgot to mark up your point."
If you're watching the game as an observer, keep your mouth shut and your opinion of a broken rule doesn't matter anyway.

If you claim you're just trying to clean up the image of pool, forget about it. That has been going on for 60 years with no progress.
I was playing in a tournament and the young guy I was playing was doing all he could to shark me.
Walking around in front of me while I am shooting yakking to friends about the shot I am getting ready to hit etc. etc.
I finally get to the hill and he has about 3 games and knows it's over .
While I am shooting he leaves the table to play the juke box , when he gets back I have run out.
Then one of his friends says , he fouled on the 4 ball.
Which I had not. wasn't even close.
Now the young guy starts argueing with me that it's his game lol.
There is a never ending supply of idiots and creeps swimming in the billiards pool.
  
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01-15-2018, 04:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hang-the-9 View Post
Hm.. sounds familiar LOL Turning Stone maybe... maybe...

Maybe not exactly the same thing, but I have seen a video of snooker sportsmanship where the player would overrule the ref ruling and refuse to take the foul or the other player would not accept a foul that was called on the opponent.
If I was the ref in that situation, I would give them both a loss.
  
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Mr. Bond
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01-15-2018, 06:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cracktherack View Post
Spectators should not have any say in the matter. The same as yelling out "Shoot the 2, not the 3." If a player is about to shoot the wrong ball. "Foul, I saw it from way up here." "Hey, you forgot to mark up your point."
If you're watching the game as an observer, keep your mouth shut and your opinion of a broken rule doesn't matter anyway.

If you claim you're just trying to clean up the image of pool, forget about it. That has been going on for 60 years with no progress.
Spectators are a non issue.

Question is whether or not a player should be forced to take a win if he doesn't want it, or should the rules trump all regardless .

Just an opinion question. I have no agenda.
  
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01-15-2018, 06:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
If this is a tournament and there is a ref or a tournament director, he is bound by duty to enforce the rules. Presumably the players have agreed to abide by the rules. That means they are supposed to follow them, too.

If it is a private game or there is no official, the players decide themselves what to do. If there is a calcutta, Heaven help the "polite" guy.
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01-15-2018, 07:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Bond View Post
Spectators are a non issue.

Question is whether or not a player should be forced to take a win if he doesn't want it, or should the rules trump all regardless .

Just an opinion question. I have no agenda.
I could be mistaken but it seems to me that I remember BCAPL having a rule about players agreeing not to follow the rules.

Personally I have done the declining and played it out when the rule was broken to the letter but not to the spirit. There used to be a rule against laying the cue on the table (to help with aiming) so technically a player laying his cue on the table to preserve the layout while going to the restroom could be called for a foul. There are others as well.
  
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01-15-2018, 07:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post
If it's a refereed match, like Turning Stone was, Billy, I mean the player who committed the foul, should lose.
Arguably, Billy committed a deliberate foul (moving a stationary object ball), which probably results in a different penalty than loss of game + 1 game.

I can see how some might say he was conceding the game - but what I saw was billy showing a little frustration and whacking the 9-ball across table with his stick. That's only a ball in hand foul.

Plus, who wants to be the guy who wins because you called a special kind of foul?

And, spectators want to see players play. Not officials calling games.

As mentioned earlier, if both players agree - where's the harm?

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01-15-2018, 08:26 PM

In a tournament situation it shouldn't matter what the opponent does or doesn't want to happen. The match should run according to the agreed upon rules of the event.
  
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