Loree Jon Snooze.............

FranCrimi · Jan 21, 2019

ChrisinNC said:
I disagree. While the tape is still running, it is pretty clear that a couple guys, one sitting right next to her during the match and another in an orange shirt came up to LJH while still in her chair after the match ended and informed her that she missed calling the foul. She looked completely puzzled, but not overly upset. She knew she had screwed up. Stuff happens, life goes on.

What do you think the purpose is in people running up to LJ after the match to tell her she missed the call? We know that it wouldn't change the outcome of the match, yet they ran up to her right away at the end. What do you think the purpose of rushing up to her like that is for people? Does it perhaps give them a sense of satisfaction knowing that they were the first ones to hurry and tell her that she goofed?

Or maybe were they trying to imply that LJ lost because she missed it and they think Jen cheated?

I can't figure out what the purpose of running up to her at that point was? Anyone??

Oh, and by the way, people do that kind of thing a lot --- coming up to a player right after a match to give them bad news. Why?

ChrisinNC · Jan 21, 2019

FranCrimi said:
What do you think the purpose is in people running up to LJ after the match to tell her she missed the call? We know that it wouldn't change the outcome of the match, yet they ran up to her right away at the end. What do you think the purpose of rushing up to her like that is for people? Does it perhaps give them a sense of satisfaction knowing that they were the first ones to hurry and tell her that she goofed?

Or maybe were they trying to imply that LJ lost because she missed it and they think Jen cheated?

I can't figure out what the purpose of running up to her at that point was? Anyone??

Oh, and by the way, people do that kind of thing a lot --- coming up to a player right after a match to give them bad news. Why?

In that situation, LJH needs to eventually know. Yes, it's best if she hears it confidentially, preferably not immediately after the match and preferably by someone in her camp or a fellow pro player she knows who may have witnessed it. But to think she's never going to hear about it from anyone is high unlikely. As painful as it might be for her to hear, she needs to learn from her mistake, so she can make sure it never happens again.

jay helfert · Jan 21, 2019

Look guys, in pool we all make mistakes because we're human. I know I've made a few. I say give them both a break here. I watched that shot several times, and with all those balls rolling it would be easy to miss the foul. I'm sure some refs might have missed it too. Jennifer looked uncertain and Loree Jon was as well, from her point of view farther away. We all have the benefit of watching it over and over, and even in slow motion. Of course we see it!

FranCrimi · Jan 21, 2019

ChrisinNC said:
In that situation, LJH needs to eventually know. Yes, it's best if she hears it confidentially, preferably not immediately after the match and preferably by someone in her camp or a fellow pro player she knows who may have witnessed it. But to think she's never going to hear about it from anyone is high unlikely. As painful as it might be for her to hear, she needs to learn from her mistake, so she can make sure it never happens again.

Right. But the ones running up to a player at the end of the match to be the first ones to share the bad news are the gossip monger types --- the same types who would go on forums and accuse a player of cheating without knowing for sure.

RiverCity · Jan 21, 2019

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=6306525&postcount=34

The person it happened to has moved on.

You folks should as well. :thumbup:

BeiberLvr · Jan 21, 2019

FranCrimi said:
Right. But the ones running up to a player at the end of the match to be the first ones to share the bad news are the gossip monger types --- the same types who would go on forums and accuse a player of cheating without knowing for sure.

Maybe they were telling her so in the future she would pay more attention to the table and not staring into space.

SBC · Jan 21, 2019

ChrisinNC said:
In a money match between two strangers, regardless of whether you're the homeroom player or the road player, if an opponent sleeps on a no rail foul like this and shooter doesn't tell them, they'll never know what they missed so how do you figure there's going to be an issue? If a railbird notices the foul and the homeroom player has missed it, they are likely to get the word out to him before he shoots anyway. If it's the road player that sleeps on the foul, the railbird is not likely to ever get involved. If there are stakehorses involved who are paying attention and notice the foul, you can be quite sure they'll let their player know in time to take the ball-in-hand, if by chance they miss it.

I don't pay this one ever. You'd need an army and still it's gonna be on.

spartan · Jan 21, 2019

What I want to know is why these people coming up to LJ post-match did not shout out “FOUL” just after JB fouled?
Isn’t that like witnessing a hit and run and calling the ambulance 1 hour later?
If I was there, I would shout out “FOUL” and quickly sneak out of the place before tournament staff come after me. :thumbup:
It is at times like this when we need beer goozling Mosconi Cup crowd to make sure justice is done

Icon of Sin · Jan 22, 2019

spartan said:
What I want to know is why these people coming up to LJ post-match did not shout out “FOUL” just after JB fouled?
Isn’t that like witnessing a hit and run and calling the ambulance 1 hour later?
If I was there, I would shout out “FOUL” and quickly sneak out of the place before tournament staff come after me. :thumbup:
It is at times like this when we need beer goozling Mosconi Cup crowd to make sure justice is done

I don't agree with the crowd/spectators getting involved in calling fouls, but I do think telling her after the fact is a bit shitty.

Yeah that's kinda like a low blow... if I saw it, I wouldn't have said anything as it happened and I damn sure wouldn't have said anything after the match either, even if I knew her. She obviously isn't happy with the loss, plus on top of the migraine she said she had... last thing I would want to do is make her feel worse about the loss and especially right after it happened.

BeiberLvr · Jan 22, 2019

Icon of Sin said:
I don't agree with the crowd/spectators getting involved in calling fouls, but I do think telling her after the fact is a bit shitty.

Yeah that's kinda like a low blow... if I saw it, I wouldn't have said anything as it happened and I damn sure wouldn't have said anything after the match either, even if I knew her. She obviously isn't happy with the loss, plus on top of the migraine she said she had... last thing I would want to do is make her feel worse about the loss and especially right after it happened.

Not paying attention to the table when your opponent is shooting is a mistake.

How else can she learn from her mistakes if she doesn't know she made one?

couldnthinkof01 · Jan 22, 2019

BeiberLvr said:
Not paying attention to the table when your opponent is shooting is a mistake.

How else can she learn from her mistakes if she doesn't know she made one?

Are you seriously saying that a woman who has played at
a professional level for like 20 years doesn’t know that?

My god this thread is nonsense.

Lj was tired and missed a foul, happens to everyone.

She said JB is not a cheater and wouldn’t do that on purpose.

People interjecting themselves into the match during or after have no
business doing so unless, it’s after the match and they are good friends
with the player.

Otherwise your just being a dick.

And that’s all I have to say about that.

$TAKE HOR$E · Jan 22, 2019

JB shoots so slow my wifi expired during that last game

canwin · Jan 22, 2019

jay helfert said:
Look guys, in pool we all make mistakes because we're human. I know I've made a few. I say give them both a break here. I watched that shot several times, and with all those balls rolling it would be easy to miss the foul. I'm sure some refs might have missed it too. Jennifer looked uncertain and Loree Jon was as well, from her point of view farther away. We all have the benefit of watching it over and over, and even in slow motion. Of course we see it!

I say the time has come for a more professional approach to streamed or televised events, in that, when there isn't a referee, a review by the people watching it on camera is a must to keep things real, and, to take the blame off the players by what happened on the table. The Saints just lost a chance to win against the Rams because of a flagrant foul by the Rams that wasn't called by the refs and now the NFL is considering implementing a review by camera. And you know how crazy it drives people that witness a major game changing foul that wasn't called in a crucial and most important situation as going to the Super Bowl !

My only hope is that Matchroom will take the lead and implement this change so situations like this are promptly handled to do away with distracting controversy and move on quickly back to what's happening on the table next and to leave the players out of it. .and I don't know why it's taken so long for TDs to do this on their own by now..

Remember when Sigel snapped his shaft in two? Listen to the commentators sum it up! Kind of feel the same way you summed this situation up. Commentators need to make reviews if need be. . case closed

garczar · Jan 22, 2019

$TAKE HOR$E said:
JB shoots so slow my wifi expired during that last game

Niiiiiiiiiice.

ChrisinNC · Jan 22, 2019

canwin said:
I say the time has come for a more professional approach to streamed or televised events, in that, when there isn't a referee, a review by the people watching it on camera is a must to keep things real, and, to take the blame off the players by what happened on the table. The Saints just lost a chance to win against the Rams because of a flagrant foul by the Rams that wasn't called by the refs and now the NFL is considering implementing a review by camera. And you know how crazy it drives people that witness a major game changing foul that wasn't called in a crucial and most important situation as going to the Super Bowl !

My only hope is that Matchroom will take the lead and implement this change so situations like this are promptly handled to do away with distracting controversy and move on quickly back to what's happening on the table next and to leave the players out of it. .and I don't know why it's taken so long for TDs to do this on their own by now..

Remember when Sigel snapped his shaft in two? Listen to the commentators sum it up! Kind of feel the same way you summed this situation up. Commentators need to make reviews if need be. . case closed

I understand your point, but comparing the magnitude of refereeing and the proper enforcement of rules and fouls for pro pool events to the same for the NFL, is kind of funny in regards to the difference in magnitude.

The fact that pool is where it is requires players to often play pro tournament matches without a referee, or at least without a qualified referee, with the unrealistic expectation that the two players in the match will be able to referee themselves without controversy. There is no question that pro pool players who play at that level certainly have a vast knowledge of the rules and certainly have the ability to be able to referee themselves in a match. However, the highly competitive drive to win makeup of most pro pool players in addition to the financial hardship many pro players find themselves in, and for some their need to win matches in order to pay their bills and support their families, can potentially create a conflict of interest in regards their integrity, which is unfortunate.

canwin · Jan 22, 2019

ChrisinNC said:
I understand your point, but comparing the magnitude of refereeing and the proper enforcement of rules and fouls for pro pool events to the same for the NFL, is kind of funny in regards to the difference in magnitude.

The fact that pool is where it is requires players to often play pro tournament matches without a referee, or at least without a qualified referee, with the unrealistic expectation that the two players in the match will be able to referee themselves without controversy. There is no question that pro pool players who play at that level have a vast knowledge of the rules and certainly ability to be able to referee themselves in a match. However, the financial hardship many pro players find themselves in, and thus their need to win matches in order to pay their bills and support their families, can potentially create a conflict of interest in regards their integrity.

Difference in magnitude but same thing as your dealing with human nature and people regardless. Would it be so earth shaking just to have an option to review on a taped table? I can understand not having the capacity or desire to have a referee at each table but since the taped table comes with automatic viewing by people who are commentating, is it beyond a stretch that they can't act as referees in a obvious situation that leaves the players out of it, people watching sane, and keep a minute amount of ethical integrity? canwin

Quesports · Jan 22, 2019

Is it any wonder none of the pro's post on AZ anymore... This thread should have died a loooonnnggg time ago.... JMO.

Bob Jewett · Jan 22, 2019

ChrisinNC said:
... There is no question that pro pool players who play at that level certainly have a vast knowledge of the rules ...

That is certainly what you might expect, but in my experience many pro players do not know all the rules. Almost certainly they have never read the official rules. They go by tradition and example and those are frequently against the official rules.

And then there is the problem of every TD seemingly putting in his pet rules.

FranCrimi · Jan 22, 2019

BeiberLvr said:
Maybe they were telling her so in the future she would pay more attention to the table and not staring into space.

Nah. That's not why they're doing it. There's plenty of time later on to have that discussion with her. No need to rush up immediately to shove it in her face.

jay helfert · Jan 22, 2019

canwin said:
Difference in magnitude but same thing as your dealing with human nature and people regardless. Would it be so earth shaking just to have an option to review on a taped table? I can understand not having the capacity or desire to have a referee at each table but since the taped table comes with automatic viewing by people who are commentating, is it beyond a stretch that they can't act as referees in a obvious situation that leaves the players out of it, people watching sane, and keep a minute amount of ethical integrity? canwin

Did you watch the NFL playoff games this past weekend? There was one blown call at the end of the 4th quarter that absolutely cost the Saints the game against the Rams, and the whole world saw it, except for the seven refs on the field. It was so bad to have this happen in such an important situation that the Super Bowl becomes somewhat meaningless this year, and the NFL has egg on their collective faces for not using the very available video tape replay to right the wrong.

In the other playoff game a ticky tacky foul that should never have been called handed a Kansas City Chiefs victory to the New England Patriots. It was the type of foul that could be called many times during the course of a game but rarely is. Usually a warning to the offending player suffices, but not this time with the game on the line. Strange days in the NFL!

In other words, shit happens and life isn't fair! This has been proven over and over again.

Loree Jon Snooze.............

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Shoot Pool, not people

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I can't fold, I need gold. I re-up and reload...

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champagne - campaign

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Shoot Pool, not people