Verify the 526 run size table.

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think they might have been A.E. Schmidt (out of St. Louis). They were very solid tables. I think they're still in business.
I sort of remember that from my talk with George Rood.

I grew up (about 200 miles south of STL) playing on A.E. Schmidt tables in the pool hall where I worked as a kid. We also had Brunswick tables They all were 4X8s. We also had a bar table and 3 or 4 snooker tables.

I preferred the way the Schmidt tables played to the Brunswick tables.

Anytime a "serious" money game was played, the players gravitated to the Schmidt tables, even though the Brunswicks were freshly covered and in the same good shape as the Schmidts.
 

Get_A_Grip

Truth Will Set You Free
Silver Member
What are some current high(400+) runs on a 9ft Diamond with 4.5" pockets.

John S ran over 200 on a Diamond. That's it. And he said that that was harder than his highest run on a table with big pockets.




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StraightPoolIU

Brent
Silver Member
What are some current high(400+) runs on a 9ft Diamond with 4.5" pockets.
I don't think there is a run that high. There are 2 or 3 guys with 200 plus under those conditions. I watched Jayson Shaw's 227 he ran at the Derby 3 years ago the other night.

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ctyhntr

RIP Kelly
Silver Member
Well said. I predict the next issue to pick would be cloth. Simonis 860 wasn't around when the record was made, so expect arguments how much easier/hardier it is today.

#526_mosconi_record_deniers

Honestly, I don't really care what the table size was. Has it been beaten on ANY sized table??? Any sized pockets??? Pick a table with the dimensions you think easiest to beat the record on...then give it a whirl. Pick your pocket size, pick your table height, pick your length and width. I really do not care about all the particulars, the man walked in, laid down 526 and walked out. Even under ideal conditions with ideal table setup it will be almost impossible to break the record. But give it your best and I wish anyone who attempts it luck.
 

3kushn

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think they might have been A.E. Schmidt (out of St. Louis). They were very solid tables. I think they're still in business.
I sort of remember that from my talk with George Rood.

Yes they're still in business but much smaller. They closed up the Sydney Street plant 15? years ago. Their shop looks to be mostly special order, custom work, and restoration.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
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Yes they're still in business but much smaller. They closed up the Sydney Street plant 15? years ago. Their shop looks to be mostly special order, custom work, and restoration.
I got an ivory carom set from Schmidt around 1980 and I think it was $80 per ball. I believe they had the last ivory ball turning specialist in the country. He retired but would come in for a special order. They were later charging $80/ball to true them.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Well said. I predict the next issue to pick would be cloth. Simonis 860 wasn't around when the record was made, so expect arguments how much easier/hardier it is today.

#526_mosconi_record_deniers

I don't care if he ran 526 on the floor! That's still the most awesome record in pool annals imo. :D
 

ctyhntr

RIP Kelly
Silver Member
Exactly, but detractors will always find things to nitpick. If not the cloth, then it was unfair Mosconi was using pre-flag Masters chalk. :D

I don't care if he ran 526 on the floor! That's still the most awesome record in pool annals imo. :D
 

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
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People usually point out the ease of running balls on the smaller larger pocket table Moscvoni used.. But I rarely hear anyone mention the older style balls and slow cloth. So i think the regular tighter pockets of today along with faster cloth would at best be considered even as it is a trade off.

What conditions would we have to create for the public to consider the conditions fair for setting up a table to try and break the record on.

Should the table have loose pockets and slow cloth?
Fast cloth and normal diamond pockets?
What about table size?
 

cmll2000

Registered
I was fortunate to play an exhibition with him near Gary Ind and he came in cold - no warm up and ran 100 with a shaft that was so full of dents and crap - I couldn't believe it. I asked him 'how can u play with this shaft and he said 'didn't I just run 100 on you". Saw him run 100 2 other times - he did not miss any of the 3 times, just stopped after 100
 

Bob Jewett

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I was fortunate to play an exhibition with him near Gary Ind and he came in cold - no warm up and ran 100 with a shaft that was so full of dents and crap - I couldn't believe it. I asked him 'how can u play with this shaft and he said 'didn't I just run 100 on you". Saw him run 100 2 other times - he did not miss any of the 3 times, just stopped after 100
Was that Mosconi's own jointed cue, or did he take one off the wall?
 

Seth C.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I didn't say anything about the pocket size. It was an over-sized 8' table though (46" x 92"). That was the most common size table in Midwestern poolrooms during that era. I knew Russ Maddox and George Rood quite well, growing up in Dayton. Russ was one of the premier hustlers I ever met. He could run 50 or 60 balls at Straight Pool and played equally good 9-Ball and One Pocket, at all times claiming himself to be an "amateur." He was pretty good with a deck of cards too, teaching me the ins and outs of cheating at Gin Rummy. Russ had that gift of gab and could sell ice cream to the Eskimos.

On the other hand George was a straight arrow, working as a dog breeder and judge in dog shows. He never hustled anybody as far as I know. He just took on all comers and played for the stakes they asked for. Once you started he wouldn't raise the bet either. If he got you stuck, he kept you stuck until you quit. I watched him beat more than one road man for over twenty games of 9-Ball at 20 a game. He would have them steaming too. He didn't say much, just kept running out and letting you rack the balls. He turned everyone into a rack boy! :D'

P.S. I visited East High Billiards in Springfield twice in the early 60's, long after Mosconi had made his run.

Regarding pocket size, per Jay:

Originally Posted by jay helfert View Post
I grew up in nearby Dayton and played in that room in the early 60's. I may have played on that very table. There weren't any tables with big pockets in that poolroom, I'm guessing all were slightly under 5", maybe 4.75". The old Brunswick Sport Kings "oversized" eight footers (46" x 92" playing surface) that I grew up on were NOT soft tables! They had straight cut pockets with deep shelves. You damn sure would miss if you hit the corners of the pocket. ...

Regarding pocket size, per an interview of George Rood:

1P: When you said Springfield, Ohio, I thought that sounded familiar. So that was where he ran 526?
GR: That's right. That was in the room that I owned, but I didn't own it then; I bought it later. It was the same room where we had played our exhibition, but it was after that, at another exhibition, when he ran all those balls.
1P: Was that same table where he had that run still there when you bought the room?
GR: Yes it was.
1P: I'm told that was a four by eight table?
GR: You're right. Now, we had played on a four and a half by nine, but it was a four by eight that he played on, with another fellow, on the night he had that high run.
1P: George, do you remember how tight the pockets were on that table?
GR: They were large.
1P: That must have helped out a little bit.
GR: But never-the-less, it's more balls than anyone else ever got.
1P: Oh yeah, it’s still amazing, even if it wasn’t the most challenging equipment. Were you there when he did it?
GR: No. I was not there, but I have read the affidavit that everybody signed that night.

Here’s the link to the interview of Rood: https://www.onepocket.org/GeorgeRoodInterview.htm
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Was that Mosconi's own jointed cue, or did he take one off the wall?


The times I saw him he'd swipe the balls around pretty good with the side of his shaft gathering them up during his tricks shots. Had to have done all kinds of damage to his shaft.

Lou Figueroa
 

Chili Palmer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here's an image of the affidavit, it doesn't say whether it's an oversized 8' or not.

d9744-4.jpg
 

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
So, something I was thinking about the other day that I wanted to address -

Lotta people on here saying that Mosconi's run was during a public exhibition, and that the record should never fall to someone running balls in their garage or basement, because it is not "in a public environment".

To that I say.. Anyone going for the record with a camera recording them knows what's at stake, and knows that the video will be worth a LOT of money, in addition to any bonus their sponsor may throw their way for the feat.

So, in a sense, the run, if videotaped, will BE in a public environment, because I am sure the player knows that 1000s of people will eventually watch the run if he is successful. In my mind, Mosconi ran the 526 cold, and with no great expectations once he had won the challenge match. If he had missed at 200, everyone there would still seen him as a badass.

Any modern player attempting to beat the record has huge expectations from ball 1, making the feat even harder. Mosconi had a nice healthy income through his association with Brunswick and heavy exhibition schedule, whereas modern players have to be top 5 in the world to make the same income as a lot of forum members have made for 20 years. The pressure to me on anyone trying is SIGNIFICANTLY higher than what Mosconi was operating under.
 

Seth C.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So, something I was thinking about the other day that I wanted to address -

Lotta people on here saying that Mosconi's run was during a public exhibition, and that the record should never fall to someone running balls in their garage or basement, because it is not "in a public environment".

To that I say.. Anyone going for the record with a camera recording them knows what's at stake, and knows that the video will be worth a LOT of money, in addition to any bonus their sponsor may throw their way for the feat.

So, in a sense, the run, if videotaped, will BE in a public environment, because I am sure the player knows that 1000s of people will eventually watch the run if he is successful. In my mind, Mosconi ran the 526 cold, and with no great expectations once he had won the challenge match. If he had missed at 200, everyone there would still seen him as a badass.

Any modern player attempting to beat the record has huge expectations from ball 1, making the feat even harder. Mosconi had a nice healthy income through his association with Brunswick and heavy exhibition schedule, whereas modern players have to be top 5 in the world to make the same income as a lot of forum members have made for 20 years. The pressure to me on anyone trying is SIGNIFICANTLY higher than what Mosconi was operating under.

This is a fairly compelling point.
 
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