Back in the day question

I did my "serious" playing back around 1990-1993. Used to take road trips to cities like Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Columbus, Chicago, St. Louis, Louisville, Lexington, Nashville. I didn't play for huge stakes, usually relatively cheap sets for $100 to $200 (the most I played for was $1,500 a set, and $200 a game, always 9-ball).

I never failed to find a game, or multiple games, in any of those cities.

The room I grew up in was like that too. Everybody could get played and pretty much anyone who walked in the door got asked.

u12armresl said:

I was reminiscing with someone and we talked about how back in the day, if we didn't know you, you got played.

Guess this kinda means that we knew everyone because there were tours, Texas Express, and various incarnations of a pro tour, so anyone that we ran into that wasn't part of that got played.

Did you have the same attitude back in the day?

I bring this up because I decided to venture out tonight and play some, which I haven't done in a pretty long time. Immediately got into a good scotch doubles game, and then one of the people quit so we split up and each played one of the other team.

The guy I played, played really good, and I had no clue who he was, but he was from around the same state, just a bit of a different part (50 miles away)
Won first set, lost second, lost third, won fourth. Got to be after 2AM and I needed to rest the back (which I am paying for right now while typing this.)

Tell your story please, when people came in that you didn't know (if you were a gambler, or even a stakehorse) what did you do?

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Matching up against stranger - a player whom you have absolutely no idea how well they play, is what it's all about. You preferably need to know whether or not they may have advanced knowledge of how well you play. Of course you also need to get visible proof of how much $$ they have on them that they are willing to lose, as opposed to how much $$ you have on you that you are willing to lose. Regardless of how much $$ you have, you should only be willing to lose as much $$ as they have on them, and no more. Otherwise, it is not an equitable risk, unless you have advanced knowledge to know for sure that you are going to win.

I was the best regular

I was the best regular so if you walked into my little corner of the world you were going to play me. Nobody else was going to play you until they rated your speed against mine. Odds were you were going to have to play your best against me.

The other side of the coin, I was usually the stranger walking in the door. I didn't care who I played because the odds were long of me not being the best when I walked into most pool halls or places with pool tables. Back then there wasn't a lot of negotiating, the game was going to be even with a stranger. The race and the bet would be quickly settled and we were off.

Playing me on my home stomping grounds the race was to one and the bet was whatever you wanted to put on the table. I played by the game and if you were coming after me you had to play by the game too. I usually still played by the game when I was the stranger but occasionally had to play sets to get something going.

Different era but it makes me crazy to watch people negotiate for two hours now to play a nine ball race to five. Often they negotiate that long and refuse to play because they are a tiny sliver of the spot apart. Haven't these people heard of "on a given day"? We used to win the bet on the table. Now it seems it has to be won at the counter before anybody goes to the table. I go into a place I rarely go and get some balls. A kid comes up, "Wanna play some?"

"Sure."

"I need a spot." What the hell?? You have never seen me hit a ball and you need a spot?

Damn, all my old grump is showing this morning but when I put my cue case in my vehicle I want to hit balls, not talk about a spot.

Hu

After high school I moved from Kentucky to Detroit, I was shooting pretty good, my attitude was if they had a job/worked I would play them. If they didn't work I would stay away unless I knew I had the nuts. I figured if they were good enough to survive on pool alone, they would probably going to get my cash, and since I always worked, I wanted to give my money to another working man. Never bet high, $20 a game in 1965 was about as I as I would go.
Tom

U12, good post.

This attitude was so pervasive in the '80s-'90s that it continues to influence decisions today.

Meaning, I wholly agree that unknowns were either played, or they were a road player passing through. Not much in between.

Eventually, for some, this created a sense of caution when walking into a new room. Don't know who to trust, who to match up with, who's firing an air barrel, etc., etc. Kinda still like that for some of us.

Here's one for ya: I was in a Nashville bowling alley playing $20 9-ball with a young wannabe roadie from Kentucky. We had been playing for hours and were probably even. Paying after each game, so we were basically tossing $20's back and forth on a side table.

Around midnight a couple of asian guys walk up and watch the action. One was kinda short and seemed very relaxed. The other a tree trunk who was rather uptight.

After a while the shorter one asked me who the best player in the house was. The tree trunk pointed at me and asked if I wanted to play sets instead.

Spidey sense was going off and I declined. Told my opponent 3 more games was it for me and if he wanted to play more he should match up with this asian guy.

They agreed to play races to 5 for $200. That was good action back then. The youngster (Tim or TJ maybe, don't remember) thought he hit the jackpot.

He then lost 5 sets, asked for a spot and double the bet, then lost 3 more.

Long story short, it was Jose Parica. Almost unknown in the south, and really most of the USA at that point, he was poetry in motion. Silky smooth stroke, brilliant table management and safeties that brought a tear to your eye.

Parica was a total gentleman and threw Tim/TJ some jelly, even though he didn't ask. Parica politely destroyed him and his dreams of being a hustler.

Never saw that young man from KY again. Just glad it was him and not me.

-von

back in the '80s in a New Jersey pool room.
If a stranger walked in I would play him.
Beat a bunch and got beat by some.
The one guy i'll never forget was a spanish speaking guy whose name i forgot.
I was a pretty good shortstop and he crushed me playing 9 ball.
We got Neptune Joe frady to play him and Joe couldn't beat him.
I always wondered who he really was.

measureman said:

back in the '80s in a New Jersey pool room.
If a stranger walked in I would play him.
Beat a bunch and got beat by some.
The one guy i'll never forget was a spanish speaking guy whose name i forgot.
I was a pretty good shortstop and he crushed me playing 9 ball.
We got Neptune Joe frady to play him and Joe couldn't beat him.
I always wondered who he really was.

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Morro Paez worked the East Coast back then and made some good scores. He went on to have a decent pro career as well, finishing second in the World Pool Championships in 2000.

ShootingArts said:

I was the best regular so if you walked into my little corner of the world you were going to play me. Nobody else was going to play you until they rated your speed against mine. Odds were you were going to have to play your best against me.

The other side of the coin, I was usually the stranger walking in the door. I didn't care who I played because the odds were long of me not being the best when I walked into most pool halls or places with pool tables. Back then there wasn't a lot of negotiating, the game was going to be even with a stranger. The race and the bet would be quickly settled and we were off.

Playing me on my home stomping grounds the race was to one and the bet was whatever you wanted to put on the table. I played by the game and if you were coming after me you had to play by the game too. I usually still played by the game when I was the stranger but occasionally had to play sets to get something going.

Different era but it makes me crazy to watch people negotiate for two hours now to play a nine ball race to five. Often they negotiate that long and refuse to play because they are a tiny sliver of the spot apart. Haven't these people heard of "on a given day"? We used to win the bet on the table. Now it seems it has to be won at the counter before anybody goes to the table. I go into a place I rarely go and get some balls. A kid comes up, "Wanna play some?"

"Sure."

"I need a spot." What the hell?? You have never seen me hit a ball and you need a spot?

Damn, all my old grump is showing this morning but when I put my cue case in my vehicle I want to hit balls, not talk about a spot.

Hu

Click to expand...

When I was playing most of my pool in the 60's and 70's, I knew all the top players (maybe a couple of hundred in the USA back then). Anyone else was an unknown and we always started even. This was how we matched up back then. 1. What game we would play (usually 9-Ball or One Pocket). 2. What was the bet ($5-$20 a standard starting bet). 3. Most often we would play by the game, although I liked paying off after two games ($10 at $5 a game etc.). I would often show some money and ask my opponent to do the same. 4. If we played by the set (say five ahead for 50) the money would be posted, either with the house man or someone I knew and trusted in there. Rarely did we play races, almost always ahead sets.

There was rarely talk about a spot unless both players knew each other or one guy was getting the best of it. I had my own line of conversation that I used when asked for a spot. It worked too most of the time. :thumbup:

ShootingArts said:

I was the best regular so if you walked into my little corner of the world you were going to play me. Nobody else was going to play you until they rated your speed against mine. Odds were you were going to have to play your best against me.

The other side of the coin, I was usually the stranger walking in the door. I didn't care who I played because the odds were long of me not being the best when I walked into most pool halls or places with pool tables. Back then there wasn't a lot of negotiating, the game was going to be even with a stranger. The race and the bet would be quickly settled and we were off.

Playing me on my home stomping grounds the race was to one and the bet was whatever you wanted to put on the table. I played by the game and if you were coming after me you had to play by the game too. I usually still played by the game when I was the stranger but occasionally had to play sets to get something going.

Different era but it makes me crazy to watch people negotiate for two hours now to play a nine ball race to five. Often they negotiate that long and refuse to play because they are a tiny sliver of the spot apart. Haven't these people heard of "on a given day"? We used to win the bet on the table. Now it seems it has to be won at the counter before anybody goes to the table. I go into a place I rarely go and get some balls. A kid comes up, "Wanna play some?"

"Sure."

"I need a spot." What the hell?? You have never seen me hit a ball and you need a spot?

Damn, all my old grump is showing this morning but when I put my cue case in my vehicle I want to hit balls, not talk about a spot.

Hu

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Tell em to buy a dog. they can name it what they want.

I didn't get to spend enough time at the pool room to be there when road players came through, due to having a job and being there 6 days a week for most all of my life till retirement.

On the rare occasion that I was there, well, the best player in the house, that happened to be there would step forward and test them. After seeing their speed or at least what they showed, the house man would call a better player if needed.....until he ran out of players or $$$$.

decent dennis said:

Tell em to buy a dog. they can name it what they want.

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My favorite line was, "Spot went home!"

jay helfert said:

Morro Paez worked the East Coast back then and made some good scores. He went on to have a decent pro career as well, finishing second in the World Pool Championships in 2000.

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I do remember he had a woman with him.
His english was not very good but good enough.

jay helfert said:

My favorite line was, "Spot went home!"

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My favorite was:

Spot died a while back.

i heard there was a room in tulsa back in the day
anybody could come and play for as much as you got
no questions asked


:thumbup:

jay helfert said:

When I was playing most of my pool in the 60's and 70's, I knew all the top players (maybe a couple of hundred in the USA back then). Anyone else was an unknown and we always started even. This was how we matched up back then. 1. What game we would play (usually 9-Ball or One Pocket). 2. What was the bet ($5-$20 a standard starting bet). 3. Most often we would play by the game, although I liked paying off after two games ($10 at $5 a game etc.). I would often show some money and ask my opponent to do the same. 4. If we played by the set (say five ahead for 50) the money would be posted, either with the house man or someone I knew and trusted in there. Rarely did we play races, almost always ahead sets.

There was rarely talk about a spot unless both players knew each other or one guy was getting the best of it. I had my own line of conversation that I used when asked for a spot. It worked too most of the time. :thumbup:

Click to expand...

Exactly how we played anyone we didn't know: Almost always by the game, even, bets varied, from 5 up to 20 or so, then after you'd gotten a feel for each other, you'd adjust or, not, and continue even. It was an art form, feeling players out. I was just telling one of the kids ( who's beginning to figure the game out and starting to play fairly sporty ) today about almost always being able to tell a player from a banger, even if the guy was doing his best to lay down. To someone who can play, there are certain facets of another player's game that just can't ( or, very rarely, anyway ) be hidden. So we ddin't get snuck up on very often but even still, there was no way to really know how someone played until you jumped up and played them.

And, again, Jay, dead on the money regarding races as opposed to ahead sets. Almost no one back then, around here, anyway, played races for the cheese. That was in tournaments, by and large. In those off times we weren't playing by the game, it was almost always 4 ahead or 5 ahead, etc... For myself, I always preferred by the game. I found people would lose more paying off a game at a time instead of sets. It was much harder, or never really even came up for consideration, just how stuck they were paying off at 20 a pop instead of 200 every 45 mins to an hour or so. I made some pretty nice little scores playing by the game. Many times we'd start for 10 a game and end up at 50. And 50 adds up pretty quickly ( by 70s standards ) if you're on a roll...

In our downtown action room in the 70s, my dog was known as a solid egg...
...'cause he growled when a cop walked in...even a plain clothes.
...he knew a hunter when he saw one.

Many pool hall managers were the same way...they knew a road player before he hit a ball.
...sometimes I fooled them by asking for $100 gin action..but not always.

Played lots of small money action back then...nobody asked for a spot.
..kept me in stroke while clocking the money players.

pt109 said:

In our downtown action room in the 70s, my dog was known as a solid egg...
...'cause he growled when a cop walked in...even a plain clothes.
...he knew a hunter when he saw one.

Many pool hall managers were the same way...they knew a road player before he hit a ball.
...sometimes I fooled them by asking for $100 gin action..but not always.

Played lots of small money action back then...nobody asked for a spot.
..kept me in stroke while clocking the money players.

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PT - I could usually spot a roadrunner from a few different criteria. Never brought a cue in, initially. Always sat off to the side somewhere with a coffee or coke and just watched. Never said much. Now, those things were not always apparent but for the most part they were.