compression joint

DaveK

DaveK

Still crazy after all these years
Silver Member
JoeyInCali said:
No compression there.
Just more mating surface.
Click to expand...

Sorry Joey, unless you are contending that wood, steel, and the myriad of plastics used in joints are incompressible solids, and I assure you they are not, where there is stress (the force of a tightened joint) the is strain (the joint faces compress and the pin elongates). The tapered surfaces may have more or less strain than the flat mating surfaces, which is related to my question. However if the surfaces push on each other they WILL compress.

KJ, you are absolutlely right, and my wonder is about the thoughts of Lambros and Layani. I recall Mike posting about his ultra joint but I am too lazy to look it up ... would rather go hit some balls with his cue instead :thumbup:

Thanks for the replies. This is a good thread ... and will stay that way unless someone over tightens it :grin:

Dave
 
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E

EddieBme

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
KJ Cues said:
IMHO, the pilot has no influence on the 'hit' of a cue.
There is very little if any compressing of the pilot being done.
It wouldn't matter anyway because it's contact has very little surface area.
A true pilot's purpose remains the same; to provide the shaft 'stricter' alignment.
Click to expand...

Hi KJ, and All.... If I have my piloted shaft, machined down to fit a flat face joint, would that change "hit" of the cue, or would I also need to fill the void in the joint of the butt also? My reason for asking, I have two cues I like (one piloted, and one flat faced), so I have two piloted shafts, and two flat faced shafts. The cues are different weights, and all four shafts are different weights, lengths, and diameters, so I want to make them interchangeable.
Any suggestions, from anyone would be appreciated.
Eddie
 
K

KJ Cues

Pro Cue Builder & Repair
Silver Member
Unless true compression of the pilot is occurring during assembly, you'd be losing nothing.
 
mortuarymike-nv

mortuarymike-nv

mortuarymike-nv
Silver Member
Wood compressing

skins said:
Mike, It's the wood of the pilot "compressing" not the brass or stainless...
Click to expand...

How much is the wood compressed if t he average persons grip produces 5 ft pounds of torque ?
If the wood at the joint is being compressed, it can be measured !!!!!!!
Or is it just trying to compress the joint but really isn't ?
 
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M.G.

M.G.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cuetec also does compression joints with their R360s.
The feel is more solid and the joint tightens up better.

It's also a common thing with oil pan screws.
 
whammo57

whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
cueenvy said:
Then wouldn't a flat faced joint hit best... no air space.

These tiny brass pilots don't even touch the inside of the shaft collars on most cues.

A compression joint has the insert set away from the face of the shaft so it extends to the bottom of the butt joint and hits the sides as well. Usually just an extension of the shaft wood. To the OP this is what most would call a compression joint
Click to expand...

Exactly................

Also these are used on 5/16 pins. I have not seen many 5/16 pins that were installed straight............ they usually wobble when the butt is spun in the lathe.

Kim
 
P

Paul Dayton

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am just finishing a cue with a tight fitting radial screw that goes into a wooden pilot on the shaft that squeeze fits into a polished ivory sleeved nickle silver joint collar. Is squeezing a wood pilot like compressing the outside of a wood pilot? I'm not sure everybody is talking about the same thing. As far as my building a cue like this, why not.
 
K

KJ Cues

Pro Cue Builder & Repair
Silver Member
I'm curious as to why you feel a pilot is needed for a RADIAL screw.
Could you elaborate for us please ? Thanks.
 
Big-Tattoo

Big-Tattoo

I'm back
Silver Member
whammo57 said:
Exactly................

Also these are used on 5/16 pins. I have not seen many 5/16 pins that were installed straight............ they usually wobble when the butt is spun in the lathe.

Kim
Click to expand...

Best 5/16×14 joint is the Mezz united, so tight and snug and super straight in the lathe:p;)
 
Shooter08

Shooter08

Runde Aficianado
Gold Member
Silver Member
Makes sense to me.

Paul Dayton said:
I am just finishing a cue with a tight fitting radial screw that goes into a wooden pilot on the shaft that squeeze fits into a polished ivory sleeved nickle silver joint collar. Is squeezing a wood pilot like compressing the outside of a wood pilot? I'm not sure everybody is talking about the same thing. As far as my building a cue like this, why not.
Click to expand...

I like the idea of more total contact and the polished Ivory sleeve will keep the wood pilot from wearing over time. The nature of the wood pilot will be to expand or press back, for lack of a better term, if you did this the way I suspect to create that squeeze or commonly called compression. I'll never be a cue builder, but enjoy the knowledge that goes into building them.
 
CamposCues

CamposCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Piloted

I use a piloted or compression joint with 5/16-14 or 18 pins only because the mild amount of slop in the threads can sometimes allow you to feel a little bit of an edge at the shaft/butt joint face, depending on how careful you aren't when joining the cue. It is miniscule but it annoys me just the same. If I oversize the wood on the pilot of the shaft, it hits the walls of the ss joint and takes away any slop or side to side play in the threads. This ensures that I can feel no edge at the joint facing. I haven't noticed it to change anything in the hit.
 
greyghost

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
those joints are built just like swedgelock branded COMPRESSION fiitting....basically....but in those its a ferrule that locks onto the tubing keeping it from sliding out the nut and sealed tight against the inner bore through the union.

tubing unions....
 
K

KJ Cues

Pro Cue Builder & Repair
Silver Member
Shooter08 said:
I like the idea of more total contact and the polished Ivory sleeve will keep the wood pilot from wearing over time. The nature of the wood pilot will be to expand or press back, for lack of a better term, if you did this the way I suspect to create that squeeze or commonly called compression. I'll never be a cue builder, but enjoy the knowledge that goes into building them.
Click to expand...

Your vision of Paul's RADIAL jnt may be slightly askew.
The ivory sleeve is on the OUTSIDE. It's sleeved OVER the stainless collar.
The wood pilot never touches the ivory sleeve.
Using ivory to control compression is not going to happen. It would split.
The compression of the wood pilot is done via the interior wall of the stainless.

I can appreciate your excitement of 'greater total contact' but in all honesty,
it doesn't need it. The inherent design of the RADIAL is already about total contact.
The pin itself has a pilot and the entire minor diameter length of the pin is a pilot.
How is it that this already substantial arrangement requires a pilot ?
A builder could put a pilot on the RADIAL shaft but WHY ?
That was the question that I posed to Mr. Dayton. I'd appreciate HIS reasoning.
 
Shooter08

Shooter08

Runde Aficianado
Gold Member
Silver Member
You are correct.

KJ Cues said:
Your vision of Paul's RADIAL jnt may be slightly askew.
The ivory sleeve is on the OUTSIDE. It's sleeved OVER the stainless collar.
The wood pilot never touches the ivory sleeve.
Using ivory to control compression is not going to happen. It would split.
The compression of the wood pilot is done via the interior wall of the stainless.

I can appreciate your excitement of 'greater total contact' but in all honesty,
it doesn't need it. The inherent design of the RADIAL is already about total contact.
The pin itself has a pilot and the entire minor diameter length of the pin is a pilot.
How is it that this already substantial arrangement requires a pilot ?
A builder could put a pilot on the RADIAL shaft but WHY ?
That was the question that I posed to Mr. Dayton. I'd appreciate HIS reasoning.
Click to expand...

After reading again I think I did misunderstand. The polished nickel joint interior should also keep the wood pilot from wearing as fast as not being polished. Thx Tom
 
K

KJ Cues

Pro Cue Builder & Repair
Silver Member
Upon reflection, Paul's answer may very well be in the last two words of his previous post; "why not".
 
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