Does taking stripes in 8b offer an advantage?

erhino41

erhino41

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lfigueroa said:
There is always a clear choice. It might a matter of experience and "horse sense and a cool head and a keen eye" (with apologies to Meredith Wilson) but there is always an advantage to one or the udder.

Lou Figueroa
ya got trouble
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I'm with Lou on this one. There is always a reason that one group is better than the other. If I'm looking over a spread that presents no trouble balls, i.e. both groups in the clear,I then start to compare the patterns themselves. One group will almost always lay better than the other.

When I compare patterns,I start at the eight ball and work backwards. Find possible key balls, then look for clusters. It will become apparent which group should be played. It's very rare to find a table where both groups are exactly the same.
 
Black-Balled

Black-Balled

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HawaiianEye said:
F

A lot of one pocket players I used to play would always put stripes in the front of the rack so that they could see the edges better on the break.
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Then I guess it is decided, with no doubt? Fer sher, it is or it isn't.

I have also heard it said often that 1p rack for your opponent should use all stripes for the front 3 because it is harder to discern the edges between balls 1&2.

But really, do we need to see the contact point on a regular shot? Isn't it like a hole in the road on your home street? You know where it is so you you don't have to verify its location every time it comes up.
 
Kickin' Chicken

Kickin' Chicken

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erhino41 said:
I'm with Lou on this one. There is always a reason that one group is better than the other. If I'm looking over a spread that presents no trouble balls, i.e. both groups in the clear,I then start to compare the patterns themselves. One group will almost always lay better than the other.

When I compare patterns,I start at the eight ball and work backwards. Find possible key balls, then look for clusters. It will become apparent which group should be played. It's very rare to find a table where both groups are exactly the same.
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regarding above in blue:

this is my point, exactly.

For me, if the choice is very close, the scale is tipped in the stripes favor due to the aiming advantage (my experience) they provide.

Shouldn't the balls that you feel can be potted easier be formulated into our decision?

best,
brian kc
 
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erhino41

erhino41

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I pretty much only play nine and ten ball these days, so yeah I certainly prefer to shoot at stripes.
 
iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

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IMO, I would have the same make percentage shooting CB into an object ball that is also a plain white non-marked CB, as any striped OB.
 
Kickin' Chicken

Kickin' Chicken

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Black-Balled said:
Then I guess it is decided, with no doubt? Fer sher, it is or it isn't.

I have also heard it said often that 1p rack for your opponent should use all stripes for the front 3 because it is harder to discern the edges between balls 1&2.

But really, do we need to see the contact point on a regular shot? Isn't it like a hole in the road on your home street? You know where it is so you you don't have to verify its location every time it comes up.
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Walter;

As you know, so much of success in shotmaking is intuitive. Def for us HAMB guys.

But I do think stripe balls have the advantage, slight as it may be, to do with the aforementioned reference points.

Kinda like if you go target shooting and have a large black target downrange and you try to hit dead center. Now take that same target and add concentric circles ending with a small bullseye at the center.

I think most would find the target with the circles and bullseye to be easier for hitting dead center.

same theory, an aiming reference point.

best,
brian kc
 
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lfigueroa

lfigueroa

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erhino41 said:
I'm with Lou on this one. There is always a reason that one group is better than the other. If I'm looking over a spread that presents no trouble balls, i.e. both groups in the clear,I then start to compare the patterns themselves. One group will almost always lay better than the other.

When I compare patterns,I start at the eight ball and work backwards. Find possible key balls, then look for clusters. It will become apparent which group should be played. It's very rare to find a table where both groups are exactly the same.
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This is pretty much what I do. I think working backwards from the eight can be illuminating. In any case there's always a reason to pick one set v the other.

I'm wondering what KC would do if he had to play with the Hyatt sett of balls that are just seven red, seven yellow, and one black. They used them in a national 8ball tourney I played in back in the 80's. Really liked those balls.

Lou Figueroa
 
erhino41

erhino41

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Kickin' Chicken said:
regarding above in blue:

this is my point, exactly.

For me, if the choice is very close, the scale is tipped in the stripes favor due to the aiming advantage (my experience) they provide.

Shouldn't the balls that you feel can be potted easier be formulated into our decision?

best,
brian kc
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Making one group psychologically easier, makes one group psychologically harder.
 
Kickin' Chicken

Kickin' Chicken

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lfigueroa said:
This is pretty much what I do. I think working backwards from the eight can be illuminating. In any case there's always a reason to pick one set v the other.

I'm wondering what KC would do if he had to play with the Hyatt sett of balls that are just seven red, seven yellow, and one black. They used them in a national 8ball tourney I played in back in the 80's. Really liked those balls.

Lou Figueroa
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surely I would have withdrawn from that tourney knowing I couldn't pot a ball. :grin-square:

slight advantage, I think there is one with stripes. That's my experience and so I factor it into the game. It may not be what others do but my rationale should make sense.

English 8b is played with all solids (reds & yellows) like the Hyatt's you described.

I wonder, was this done to keep everything equal?

best,
brian kc
 
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Johnnyt

Johnnyt

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BB table I took whatever I made. Same with the 9' and 10' tables. But if I had choice on the big tables I picked high balls for the markings. Johnnyt
 
erhino41

erhino41

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Kickin' Chicken said:
but is it really psychological?

see target shooting reference above. ;)
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Yes it is psychological. I understand where your coming from, and by all means do what you think makes it easier for you. You are making it inherently harder to shoot solid by taking this mindset. When solids lay better or your opponent elects stripes what do you do then, withdraw from the tournament? How do you play any other game besides eight ball
 
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Kickin' Chicken

Kickin' Chicken

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erhino41 said:
Yes it is psychological.
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so then what about the target shooting example with an all black target vs a target with circles and a bullseye?

FACT: there is going to be a better success rate hitting closer to center using targets that have the bullseye.

I don't think it's psychological.
 
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philly

philly

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I have heard this before and read other threads here stating that it is easier to aim on a striped object ball. I personally have no preference.
 
Scratch85

Scratch85

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I'm a point-to-point shooter. The point on a striped object ball has more references. However, I regularly use the reflection of the ferule on difficult balls (eg: backward cuts) to find my point. That is easier on solids. For me stripes are easier but not much.
 
Jimbojim

Jimbojim

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I can't say I have ever used this trick but if it can help anyone, the way I go about deciding which ball set to use is to work the pattern backwards.

1. Figure out where the 8 can be made and the easiest pocket available.
2. Which ball gives me the easiest position for the 8 ball.
3. Once I have figured 1 and 2, if the ball set is runnable I work up my pattern from the 8 ball to the first ball (kinda like 14.1). If not I plan when to play safe while trying to open up my opportunities if possible
 
lfigueroa

lfigueroa

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Kickin' Chicken said:
surely I would have withdrawn from that tourney knowing I couldn't pot a ball. :grin-square:

slight advantage, I think there is one with stripes. That's my experience and so I factor it into the game. It may not be what others do but my rationale should make sense.

English 8b is played with all solids (reds & yellows) like the Hyatt's you described.

I wonder, was this done to keep everything equal?

best,
brian kc
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Maybe because in 8ball the ball numbers are superfluous?

In any case, if you think it gives you an edge more power to you.

Lou Figueroa
 
realkingcobra

realkingcobra

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Kickin' Chicken said:
This is an interesting one for me.

I can usually sort out patterns pretty well and following a break if there is a choice, I'm always taking the easier group, basically, the one I feel provides the best chance to win. Obv, right? Where's the duh emoji?

But...

If it looks pretty even I find myself tending to go for the high balls more often because the stripes on them provides me with more aiming reference points compared with the much plainer solids.

I wonder, is this because my vision is so lousy that I tend to do this or is it a more common practice than I'm aware of?

best,
brian kc
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Well Brian, I'll give you something to ponder when it comes to stripes vs solids when the run out patterns are about equal. Next time you go play somewhere other than your home table, play around little with shooting the stripes straight down the center of the table just like a lag shot. Make sure the strip is rolling on the color and not the white of the balls....you might think twice about picking the stripes as your first choice of balls to run out with:thumbup:
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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lfigueroa said:
Maybe because in 8ball the ball numbers are superfluous? ...
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In some rule sets it is call shot in which case the numbers make things easier. When the BCA was using the reds and yellows, the game was not call shot. Here is a set of the balls: http://www.muellers.com/Casino-Pool-Ball-Set,431.html

As for the original question, if I'm shooting a long shot on the green ball from my group on a table with bad light and the ball is on the far, far end rail in shadow, I'd rather have it be the 14 than the 6. I don't use aiming reference points on the ball but I do like to see the edge.
 
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