★ Skinny Shaft vs. ★ Fat Shaft

[Patrick Johnson]

I mentioned the tip location as quarter ball for the purpose of explaining why some people think they get more spin on the cue ball with LD shafts, which normally tend to be on the thin side.

Yes, I got that.

You might be surprised to know that MOST people who play pool think that the centerline is their gauge for how much English they are putting on the cue ball.

I forgot to mention that the tip's width itself doesn't make any difference in where you hit the CB - it's the tip's curvature that matters. So unless one tip is rounder or flatter than the other, you'll hit the same spot on the CB even if you use the centerline to gauge your hit.

pj
chgo

 

[genomachino]

I'm using 12.25....

★ We're talking about 12.25mm and under for skinny shaft.
★★ And 12.75 and up for Fat Shaft.

It is becoming more and more clear to me that it is easier to cut balls and spin your cue ball with skinnier shafts than it is with fatter shafts. (not saying that you can apply more spin with either)

Also, it seems to be easier to shoot follow shots with fatter shafts (typical angle follow shots - not extreme cut shots).

Any thoughts or comments of why or why not?

JoeyA

12.75 seemed to push the ball too much.

12.00 seemed to be to thin and lost some control of whitey.

12.25 seems to be right for me.

Sounds like the story of little red riding hood and the three bears.

It also seems to make a difference what tip is on these different size shafts.

But just a little.

Good thread. many different preferences here for sure.

The main thing is it's what you get used to. Knowing how it plays and play accordingly.

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

Tips size

I have a duplicate of a shaft that Mike GUlyassy made for Earl Strickland down to the taper which had almost a 20" straight taper. It was a tiny bit less than 13mm but not much smaller than that. The shaft taper made the cue ball dance like an angry bull.

JoeyA

Well shoot, My memory must be falling, I was pretty sure I read where Jenifer Lee or Ewa Laurance said Earl used a small shaft.
I believe that statement was made before he shot for CueTec .

Anyway Its cool you have that shaft was made for Earl S.
I have my own lathes and making a shaft is not a problem.
I have 4 matching shafts for my main player and several others that with still screw on and fit good but not matching rings.
I have produced a few non laminated LD shafts.

I know guys who can break and run rack after rack with a bar cue that has a tip on it the thickness of dime .

I like a stiff hitting shaft, Conical taper 12.6 to 12.7mm tip.

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

4.0

The ideal shaft size for me would be 12.60 -12.70mm with a 17" taper, flat faced wood joint face and weigh >4. ozs........but it's a real challenge to find a 12.65mm shaft with a long taper that weighs over 4 ounces when there's no brass in the shaft.


Matt B.

Hi Matt

I have weighed out hundreds of 3/8 x 10 and 3/8 x 11 shafts wood to wood joint.

I have ran across one 4.0 oz wood to wood jointed shaft. with a pro taper.

Even if its a 30 inch shaft its still rare to find 4.0 oz shafts

 

[skins]

Long shaft tapers makes bigger tip sizes feel smaller.... I like 13mm with a looong straight taper...

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Hi Matt

I have weighed out hundreds of 3/8 x 10 and 3/8 x 11 shafts wood to wood joint.

I have ran across one 4.0 oz wood to wood jointed shaft. with a pro taper.

Even if its a 30 inch shaft its still rare to find 4.0 oz shafts

I have a Barnhart with a 29.5" shaft, wood to wood radial that weighs 4.6oz at a 12.8mm, with a Southwest taper. I've owned more than one shaft that was wood to wood, pro taper, that was 4 oz. The vast majority hover between 3.5 and 3.8, in my experience.

 

[336Robin]

Squirt issue

I play with 12.80 regular maple. I don't like 13mm for sensitive shots where I need more spin because of the extra squirt involved. I feel like there is a huge difference in 13mm and 12.80 and I get lots of spin as much I would have ever wanted but if youre liking the really skinny ones yeah I can see that but I think the breaking point for shafts that spin whitey well is closer to 13mm than you might think.

★ We're talking about 12.25mm and under for skinny shaft.
★★ And 12.75 and up for Fat Shaft.

It is becoming more and more clear to me that it is easier to cut balls and spin your cue ball with skinnier shafts than it is with fatter shafts. (not saying that you can apply more spin with either)

Also, it seems to be easier to shoot follow shots with fatter shafts (typical angle follow shots - not extreme cut shots).

Any thoughts or comments of why or why not?

JoeyA

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

Shaft weight

I have a Barnhart with a 29.5" shaft, wood to wood radial that weighs 4.6oz at a 12.8mm, with a Southwest taper. I've owned more than one shaft that was wood to wood, pro taper, that was 4 oz. The vast majority hover between 3.5 and 3.8, in my experience.

Hi Shawn
I would still consider 4.0 OZ shaft rare or few and far between.
Never heard of a 4.6 oz shaft . In less it was purple heart

That's what I get is 3.5 to 3.8 on the average, heaviest shaft I have own was a Bobby Hunter/ ivory ferrule 4.0 . and one Coker . 4.0 .

 

[JoeyA]

Hi Shawn
I would still consider 4.0 OZ shaft rare or few and far between.
Never heard of a 4.6 oz shaft . In less it was purple heart

That's what I get is 3.5 to 3.8 on the average, heaviest shaft I have own was a Bobby Hunter/ ivory ferrule 4.0 . and one Coker . 4.0 .

My playing shaft is 4.3 oz.
JoeyA

 

[arps]

for more than 3 years now, i've played with a 13-13.1mm shaft.

 

[JoeyA]

I find it hard to believe that if you aim the centerline at the quarter ball line of the cue ball with an 11 mm tip with a dime curvature and a 13 mm tip with a dime curvature, that you will not be further away from the vertical axis of the cue ball with the 11mm tip.
.

JoeyA

Yes, I got that.


I forgot to mention that the tip's width itself doesn't make any difference in where you hit the CB - it's the tip's curvature that matters. So unless one tip is rounder or flatter than the other, you'll hit the same spot on the CB even if you use the centerline to gauge your hit.

pj
chgo

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

Maple shafts

My playing shaft is 4.3 oz.
JoeyA

speechless, personally I haven't seen maple shafts with a wood to wood joint weigh in that heavy.

I am a cue repair guy and a beginner in making cue's , I do buy the best shaft wood I can find.
I do have some shaft wood dowels that I have been sitting on sense 2002.

Extremely rare to find maple that dense. at least it is for me .

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I find it hard to believe that if you aim the centerline at the quarter ball line of the cue ball with an 11 mm tip with a dime curvature and a 13 mm tip with a dime curvature, that you will not be further away from the vertical axis of the cue ball with the 11mm tip.
.

JoeyA

The edge of the smaller tip will be farther away from center, of course, but unless you're using maximum English you're not hitting on the edge of the tip anyway.

For all other hits the smaller tip and the larger tip might as well be the same cue - in fact you could make the smaller one out of the larger one by simply removing a thin outer layer, and the tip contact spots would be exactly the same for all shots except maximum English shots.

pj
chgo

 

[fjk]

Well I haven't read through everyone's posts so my apologies if someone already stated these thoughts on the subject:

My stroke is a bit wobbly. I've found that the inconsistencies in my stroke are magnified with a smaller shaft. It feels better when I'm playing, but I don't play as well.

I think if my stroke was straighter, the thinner shaft would have some advantages.

 

[bounoun]

Well I haven't read through everyone's posts so my apologies if someone already stated these thoughts on the subject:

My stroke is a bit wobbly. I've found that the inconsistencies in my stroke are magnified with a smaller shaft. It feels better when I'm playing, but I don't play as well.

I think if my stroke was straighter, the thinner shaft would have some advantages.

I was going to ask the exact same question !!!

Been playing with a Z shaft for a while but my potting skills aren't on par what they used to be. Switch to a 13mm shaft today and the balls have been flying in.

Is a bigger tip more "forgiving" with stroke errors ?

 

[slide13]

I find it hard to believe that if you aim the centerline at the quarter ball line of the cue ball with an 11 mm tip with a dime curvature and a 13 mm tip with a dime curvature, that you will not be further away from the vertical axis of the cue ball with the 11mm tip.
.

JoeyA

It's true though. The curvature of the tip matters but the diameter of the tip doesn't, until you get to thsee miscue limit of the smaller tip which comes sooner than the larger diameter tip.

Beleive it or not.

I've actually created graphics that show this but the don't have easy access to them right now. I think I've posted it before.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Is a bigger tip more "forgiving" with stroke errors ?

No, although it's a common impression. A flatter one may be, but not by much.

pj
chgo

 

[HawaiianEye]

No, although it's a common impression. A flatter one may be, but not by much.

pj
chgo

IMHO, a bigger and flatter tip gives me a better control and a smoother ride. I think the little bit of flatness is noticeable and provides a degree of "forgiveness".

All of my custom cues have been made with 14mm shafts and I shape the tips like a nickel, instead of the dime shape that lots of other players use.

 

[ENGLISH!]

IMHO, a bigger and flatter tip gives me a better control and a smoother ride. I think the little bit of flatness is noticeable and provides a degree of "forgiveness".

All of my custom cues have been made with 14mm shafts and I shape the tips like a nickel, instead of the dime shape that lots of other players use.

A wide 'flat tip' does help with miss hits on center ball to the point of still making contact with the center of the ball IF there is a truly flat section & the miss hit is not TOO far off center.

When I installed 13 mm Soft Elk Master Tips, I made or left the center flat & then just slightly rounded the edges.

With that profile one can more readily see 'exactly' where the rounded 'edge' of the tip will contact the ball when using english, or straight side & in combination with draw & hence , IMO, be more precise.

With the very soft tip there is no real need for the tip to be a nickle or dime radius as the tip compresses significantly & 'grabs' or maintains contact with the CB 'better' than other combinations of tip hardness & shape. At least for the more soft spin shots & it also utilizes chalk better. The Elk Master Tips are even bathed in a chalk solution & hence soak up an amount near the perimeter.

I'm not looking to argue with 'anyone'. I know physics & I know what my experience of nearly 1/2 century has confirmed to me..

Aloha & Best Wishes to ALL.

PS The above was not for you 'Eye', as you seem to already know from your experience.

 

[ceebee]

★ We're talking about 12.25mm and under for skinny shaft.
★★ And 12.75 and up for Fat Shaft.

It is becoming more and more clear to me that it is easier to cut balls and spin your cue ball with skinnier shafts than it is with fatter shafts. (not saying that you can apply more spin with either)

Also, it seems to be easier to shoot follow shots with fatter shafts (typical angle follow shots - not extreme cut shots).

Any thoughts or comments of why or why not?

JoeyA

I played with an 11mm shaft in my Snooker years. When I got my first Hoppe Cue, I believe it was about 12.6. then I got into Pechauers & 13 mm was the deal. A year ago, I bought a newer Pecahuer shaft & is is about 12.75... it was great.

Then Guido made me a new cue with a 12.6... it is the real deal.