Well I guess it's a matter of what you're most comfortable with. All things being equal I'd almost always always want to take the shot where I didn't have to shoot off the rail. With the 1 rail kick, the rail isn't an issue at all. The angle gives you the opportunity to hit the cueball just about anywhere, like it was in the middle of the table. I find it a pretty easy shot to judge the angle, or the contact point on the top rail. I'd shoot it to nudge the 7 ball off the side rail, leaving it behind the 7 and 10 not caring if I had to give up a ball in the process. Shooting the 3 rail kick, I'd be concerned about mis-cuing as well as curving the cueball on the way to the first rail making the accuracy more difficult! But that's just me, different strokes for different folks!With all due respect, this is exactly why I would choose the 3 railer in this case, because the cue ball is on the side rail up 2 diamonds. It is much harder to estimate the 1 rail kick for such a small target once you leave the end rail where it is simple to divide the 1st rail by 2. Plus the margin for error is greater w/the 3 railer, especially for speed purposes.
The one railer if hit perfectly, has to be the perfect speed to avoid the scratch or coming up a hair short allowing your opponent to see the 12, 8 or 6 after the shot (assuming it's hit hard enough so they cannot cut a ball into their pocket). The 3 railer would be hit with running english anyway so there is no additional swerve affect on the cue ball regardless of where it is. That would only be important if you had to make a ball from that position using that inside stuff.
And, 1 Pocket Ghost, I'm in for that '1-and-1' if we ever meet - just some friendly woofin.
Dave
And, 1 Pocket Ghost, I'm in for that '1-and-1' if we ever meet - just some friendly woofin.
Dave
Well I guess it's a matter of what you're most comfortable with. But that's just me, different strokes for different folks!
Dave.....You got action on the 1-and-1...unless your last name is Matlock......
...
- Ghost
PS, What city are you in? - you can pm me if you want.
You don't need to be on the end rail to make dividing by 2 simple. All you have to do is:With all due respect, this is exactly why I would choose the 3 railer in this case, because the cue ball is on the side rail up 2 diamonds. It is much harder to estimate the 1 rail kick for such a small target once you leave the end rail where it is simple to divide the 1st rail by 2.
The problem with swerve is that it's accentuated by hitting down on the rail-frozen CB.The 3 railer would be hit with running english anyway so there is no additional swerve affect on the cue ball regardless of where it is.
You don't need to be on the end rail to make dividing by 2 simple. All you have to do is:
Imagine a line straight across the table through the middle of the CB, like the blue line below. To hit a spot on that line any distance from the CB, aim half the distance over on the headrail.
So to hit the opposite long rail directly across from the CB (at cueball B), aim for the center of the head rail (black line below). That track is pretty close to the one we want so we start with our cue (or line of sight) on that "reference" track (black line below from head rail to cueball B).
To adjust from the reference track to the target track, move the cue tip sideways along the blue line and the butt sideways along the head rail, always keeping the tip twice as far from its starting point (cueball B) as the butt is from its starting point (headrail center), until the cue is pointed at the target, like the red line below. The new aim point on the head rail is where the butt points.
View attachment 154386
1-rail reference tracks and the adjustments from them are easy to visualize accurately, especially an obvious one like this. With practice this kick can easily be geometrically measured by sight (maybe cue-aided) to within an inch or two of the target. Of course you also have to hit the cue ball just right, as with any kick, but this shot needs only dead centerball so at least there's no guessing.
I'm not saying this is the correct 1 pocket shot, especially for somebody with more 3-rail skills than me. I'm just showing how accurate it can be.
The problem with swerve is that it's accentuated by hitting down on the rail-frozen CB.
I see this tradeoff, heavily influenced by the player's skills:
1. Accuracy (aim/speed) - 1-rail has edge unless very good 3-rail skill
2. Margin for error - 3-rail has better approach angle, but longer track, more traffic
pj
chgo
You don't need to be on the end rail to make dividing by 2 simple. All you have to do is:
Imagine a line straight across the table through the middle of the CB, like the blue line below. To hit a spot on that line any distance from the CB, aim half the distance over on the headrail.
So to hit the opposite long rail directly across from the CB (at cueball B), aim for the center of the head rail (black line below). That track is pretty close to the one we want so we start with our cue (or line of sight) on that "reference" track (black line below from head rail to cueball B).
To adjust from the reference track to the target track, move the cue tip sideways along the blue line and the butt sideways along the head rail, always keeping the tip twice as far from its starting point (cueball B) as the butt is from its starting point (headrail center), until the cue is pointed at the target, like the red line below. The new aim point on the head rail is where the butt points.
View attachment 154386
1-rail reference tracks and the adjustments from them are easy to visualize accurately, especially an obvious one like this (it's not much harder with the CB off the side rail). With practice this kick can easily be geometrically measured by sight (maybe cue-aided) to within an inch or two of the target. Of course you also have to hit the cue ball just right, as with any kick, but this shot needs only dead centerball so at least there's no guessing.
I'm not saying this is the correct 1 pocket shot, especially for somebody with more 3-rail skills than me. I'm just showing how accurate it can be.
The problem with swerve is that it's accentuated by hitting down on the rail-frozen CB.
I see this tradeoff, heavily influenced by the player's skills:
1. Accuracy (aim/speed) - 1-rail has edge unless very good 3-rail skill
2. Margin for error - 3-rail has better approach angle, but longer track, more traffic
pj
chgo
Exactly and your odds of shooting a turd and scratching in the pocket are much greater when shooting the 1 rail kick as opposed to the 3 railer
When it boils down to it the 3 rail is better than the 1 rail....its safer and no harder to shoot.
-Grey Ghost
id love to play you for money
I think somewhere in the literature it's been said that the more rails you go the easier it is to predict the speed, or at least that the cue ball will come out the same place. (I wish Ron participated here, because I believe he's addressed this a few times on RSB.) Maybe Bob will toss in his 2 cents.
(SNIP)
No down side. It's worth the foul.
Lou Figueroa
Just to see how I'd actually do with this shot, I set it up on my 9' Diamond and shot it both ways 10 times each.
With the 3 rail kick, I kicked the 7 ball in 3 times, scratched once off the rail then the ball, hit it good only one time and came up safe without hitting any ball but not selling out except for the ball I would owe and essentially sold out the other 5 times. The 3 times I kicked it in, I left a pretty easy return each time.
On the One rail kick version, I scratched off the 7 ball twice and over shot it once where the cueball went around the 7 and left a shot straight in on the 7, but I ended up safe every other time. A few of the times I hit no ball, giving up a ball in the process, but no shot either essentially turning the break around.
For me, the 3 rail kick was even much more difficult than I'd originally thought, mostly because of shooting it off the rail. I even miscued one time but didn't count that in the test as it was probably because I didn't chalk up well enough for such a shot, but it definitely reinforced my belief that the one rail shot was easier to control. It's a tough situation any way you look at it, and I still think that thinning off the 5 ball would probably be my first choice, unless it looked differently on the table than it does in the pictures. but I'm sure that _for me_ the one rail option is by far the best of the kicking options.
I'd suggest you try that 3 rail kick on a real table several times yourself! With that cueball frozen on the rail, it's a *****! Several people said they thought that it was easier to control the speed going 3 rails. Maybe if the the ball wasn't frozen on the rail, but for my money, I wouldn't shoot that shot with a gun to my head, especially after trying it several times.
I've never seen greyghost play, but if his stroke is even somewhat comparable to his knowledge of the game....then you don't want to play him for money.
(Unless you're Johnny Archer, imo)
id love to play u 2